MORE NEWGUY QUESTIONS !?!? THANKS FOR THE HELP !!!

[Grizzzly]

I don't know alot about rifles so I have a few questions. What makes a lever action CARBINE rifle different from any other. I'm still deciding on my next rifle for the Adirondacks, I think I want a Winchester 94ae trapper with either a tang or crossbolt safety in a 44mag.Meanc has the rifle I want!! Very nice !! What years came with tang safety ? Seems they would be easier to use than the cross bolt. What is easier to get ammo for 44mag or 45 colt(possible option for me also)? Which would you recommend? I plan on shooting open sights but want the AE in case I want to scope it. I will probably have it hard chrome in satin finish & have Stevesgunz work it over for me. The only thing I don't like about the Puma is the cheap safety & Steve takes care of that but then all you have is half cock safety, I don't think I like that. Your thoughts please. If you have a trapper like I want let me know. Thanks again guys, I hope some of these questions don't seem stupid, but if I don't know I'm gonna ask.
John

[O.S.O.K.]

Boy, more questions? I think he's already over the limit isn't he guys?

OK - a carbine has a 20" or shorter barrel with barrel bands instead of a handguard cap and traditionally a semi-curved buttplate. Rifles have longer barrels with the handguard cap and a screw underneath to secure the magazine with cressent or shotgun buttplate . Carbines usually have both a band and a screw. Carbines can also have saddle rings installed for securing to a saddle.

"modern" carbine:


"classic" rifle:


The 44 mag versions will be best with 250 grain bullets and lighter while the 45 Colt can handle upwards of 325 grain bullets and even more and stabilize them - the twist rate in 44 mags is 1:38 and 45 Colts are 1:20 IIRC. 44 mag ammo is more available but there are plenty of 45 Colt loadings out there - of all power levels. Because of the ability to accurately shoot the heavier bullets, the 45 is really "more cartrige" than the 44 in these carbines IMHO.

Many like to match their carbine's chambering to their favorit handgun - like both 44 mags or both 45 Colt. If you choose a Ruger Blackhawk or Vaquero (old model) they can both handle the hotter loads in 45 Colt...

If you are after whitetail or mule deer, hogs and the like, then a well constructed 250 grain bullet will be more than plenty. I'd recommend a good keith style or wide flat-nose style hard cast, gas checked bullet.

A half cock safety is fine IMHO - I look for older Marlins and Winchesters w/o the cross-bolt or other safety and feel very safe with the 1/2 cock. For defensive use, just keep the chamber empty and rack when the time comes... takes 1/2 second. Some hunt like that but I think its too noisy...

[Nath]

Hi Grizzly, don't get hung up on the safety as I only ever used mine for unloading. When I did forget it was on it cost me a fox one summer morning and so I swore to never use it again unless unloading.
You see they ain't like a bolt gun safety as they allow the hammer to still drop and make a tremendous noise, stupid idea really.

Nath.

[Buck Elliott]

Those wierd Safeties were obviously designed by liars -- oops, I meant "lawyers", not by shooters...

If the half cock safety isn't enough for you, maybe you should take up croquet or badminton as your extreme sports of choice...

No offense intended.

Keep your finger OFF the trigger, until you are ready to shoot!

[Grizzzly]

I'm not worried about my finger hitting the trigger. Sometimes in the snow & swamps it can get slippery, I don't want any accidents up in the mountains. Thanks for the help guys, keep it comin'. John

[alnitak]

So, I will throw in my $.02 (why is it a 'penny for your thoughts', but we always throw in two cents? Who gets the other penny?), even though I'm a relative newbie compared to these good folk on this forum.

You already have the answer on the carbine question. I will just say that a 20" Winchester balances just about perfect; and the 16" Trapper is a very handy length. Also, you can find carbines with the crescent butt (see the 1926 one in the classifieds), and some don't have the saddle ring (hence, the SRC designation for those that do).

On the .44 mag vs. .45 Colt discussion, that has been debated here any number of times, with passion on both sides. I went through the same decision 4-5 years ago. I chose the .44 mag for the following reasons:
-- At the time, I wasn't into reloading, and the .44 mag factory ammo was (and still is) easier to find on store shelves, especially in remote sites.
-- .44 mag is cheaper than .45 Colt, factory ammo and reloading components (e.g., .45 Colt brass is about 2x the cost of .44 mag)
-- While .45 Colt has a broader range of bullets available for reload (up to 325 gr), the .44 mag offers a number of possibilities as well, from 180 gr to 200 gr, to 240/250 gr Keith style, 265 gr. HPs, and heavier 285-320 gr cast bullets. Randy Garret has 310/320 gr +P Hammerheads that have taken every game on the planet.
-- I have the flexibility to shoot .44 Specials in my Trapper, giving me some additional flexibility. Of course, you can download the .44 mag cases to whatever level you want, even "cat sneeze" loads; you can do the same with the .45 Colt.
-- I can also shoot the more powerful .44 mag loads (even Garrett) out of my Rugers. My understanding is that the Colt .45's aren't built to handle the pressures of the heavier loads, so potentially, you have to use different ammo in your handguns than your rifle, which may cause logisitics issues.
-- The one negative to the .44 mag is that it is not a "historic" cartridge like the .45 Colt, so if you want "authentic", e.g., for CAS, many prefer .45 Colt

On the safety, I've changed out my cross-bolt safety to a half-cock model. The cross-bolt safety has some issues, like the rebounding hammer (although not restricted to cross-bolt models) and the possibility of being engaged when you don't want it to and missing a shot opportunity. It is also ugly on the receiver. In that regard, the tang safety presents cleaner lines (but still is a lawyer solution to a problem that doesn't exist). The standard procedure for many is to jack one in the chamber and put the half-cock safety on, and you are perfectly safe traipsing through the woods.

BTW, did you see Bullard's ad in the Classifieds for the 94AE Trapper? No cross-bolt safety, both peep sight and scope rings, etc. Looks like it's perfect for your needs!

[Nath]

I'm not worried about my finger hitting the trigger. Sometimes in the snow & swamps it can get slippery, I don't want any accidents up in the mountains. Thanks for the help guys, keep it comin'. John

The 94 is real handy to make safe say when crossing a creek or other.
Just open the action and remove the chambered round, now press down the next round and it'll slip back in the mag when closing.
As easy as pie

Nath.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

... Who gets the other penny? ...

The government of course.

[marlinman93]

I hunt with lod Marlins that never did have a safety other than half cock. Wonder how all those guns were used without killing their owners!
I personally don't wander around the field with one in the chamber. When I see an opportunity to shoot, I lever a round into the chamber, then lower the hammer to halfcock, and when I'm ready to actually fire I cock it and shoot.

[alnitak]

The 94 is real handy to make safe say when crossing a creek or other.
Just open the action and remove the chambered round, now press down the next round and it'll slip back in the mag when closing.
As easy as pie

Nath.

Wise advice. Thanks.

[Tycer]

The half-cock notch is very deep and would take a sledgehammer to break. IMO, they are very safe.

Do you know the four rules of gun safety? I've fallen hard while carrying a loaded weapon and though bruised and broken, I've never shot anything accidentally.

1) Treat all guns as loaded. Always.
2) Never point a gun at something you do not wish to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target.
4) Know your target and beyond it.

[JerryB]

A big Amen to you Tycer,that is the best advice you can give anybody. A levergun is as safe as you need , safety is between the ears.

[kimwcook]

A big Amen to you Tycer,that is the best advice you can give anybody. A levergun is as safe as you need , safety is between the ears.

+1. The firearm is just a tool. How it functions is the responsibility of the operator.

[Grizzzly]

I know the rules. I am a very safe hunter, but I have heard many stories about the guns going off while loading, etc. etc. because of no safety. That is why I was concerned. From what I am hearing here, there really is no reason for concern about any of that. I have never seen it happen myself or ever used one, that is why I am on this site asking questions. Thanks for the input guys. John