Old point and shoot training from the Vietnam era?

[Canuck Bob]

I stumbled on this when asking about it on another forum, thanks to Slim Iorg for the details. It was called Quick Kill in the military and Quick Skill when Daisy sold a training set to civilians. Adult BB guns were used for initial practice and claims of hitting aspirins and bbs in the air were bandied about.

It was a system designed for jungle combat and relied on the natural ability of the body and vision to acquire and dispatch a target. I remembered it from some gun rag articles from a million years ago. I tried it with my tired old pellet gun and it was quick and accurate up close for a kid.

A shooter shoulders the gun in tight to the chest, locks the upper body with a high cheek weld and shoots instinctively when the eyes lock on.

Anyone remember this or has actual training back in the day?

Do current combat troops use anything that sounds like this?

[Blaine]

We spent a day with that in Basic Training, in 1972. Pretty easy to hit pop, and beer cans that they brought in. They had a few old Daisey levers. You could see where you missed, the BB was going so slow

[Canuck Bob]

I bought the girls a little Avanti bb rifle and thinking this might be fun to try again. Did it have any lasting worth after the training?

A lot quieter and cheaper than a tracer round but prepping for combat with a Daisy!!!!

Slim mentioned receiving further training with his M16 and some snap on plastic ramp to hide the sights I think.

[Blaine]

I really can't say....I had good shooting nailed down years before the Army got ahold of me, and I never really knew if others had this training.

[MrMurphy]

I'm aware of the program from back when the Earth was still cooling.


These days, it's all about rapid aimed fire....period. No sights on target, you better not fire.

With the M68 CCO (Aimpoint) making fast hits isn't terribly hard. Shooting both eyes open, if you see the target, and see the dot on target......unless you're seriously screwing up, you'll get a hit or a close miss in a hurry. Even if the dot isn't centered in the tube. Which is the point. Red dots are DESIGNED for fast moving targets when you're moving, he's moving, etc. It's not perfect but for shooting on the move or shooting at a moving target, I have yet to find anything better (after 20+ years of shooting irons) especially in low light.

If you don't have the M68, you've got some form of the ACOG or another magnified scope for reaching out and touching people, since red dots don't do as well past 150-200m.

There may be some support units still rolling the old A2 with irons, but they're still being taught to AIM.....not point.

The only time you wouldn't technically be aiming would be if you have to get up close and personal with a full size M16, some guys will flip the rifle sideways (ejection port up) with the stock over the shoulder to shorten the weapon for house clearing. You 'aim' using the flash suppressor as a front sight. Since you're typically shooting in something about the size of a handicapped Porta Potty, it works 'well enough' from all reports (also works for shotguns). I've done it in training, never saw combat.

Had to do something similar with a full sized M249 clearing an underground command bunker once, since it's the size of a full size M16....but weighs 22 lb. Thankfully, we didn't have to fire a shot, but it made life interesting for a bit.

[gcs]

I read about that system looong ago, I tried it with a 22 rifle and it worked surprisingly well. Sorta like instinctive wing shooting. "see the target, track and mount gun, shoot as the butt hits your shoulder."

It was easy to hit a moving tossed object with the rifle after a few tries. Gee I hadn't thought about this in over 40 years.

[Lassiter]

I remember that from good ole Ft. Polk in 1970. Got pretty good at it at, at the time.

[Blaine]

IIRC, you could buy a kit that included a pamphlet, and a Daisey with no sights on it....Except for the high birds, I snap shoot pretty good.

[BigSky56]

It was good training for jungle fighting at the distance you engage, first on the trigger wins a cookie, with a auto you can walk your rounds to the 10 ring. The point guys in the blues platoon carried brng A5 12 ga with buck and flechette rounds. danny

[Blaine]

It was good training for jungle fighting at the distance you engage, first on the trigger wins a cookie, with a auto you can walk your rounds to the 10 ring. The point guys in the blues platoon carried brng A5 12 ga with buck and flechette rounds. danny

I got to play with a M-79 and 40mm flechette rounds....dang things would cut quite the swath at 25 yards.....

[MrMurphy]

We wanted the 40mm buckshot load for entries......never got any. We figured firing a 40mm HEDP load through the door would get their attention anyways.

[Blaine]

We wanted the 40mm buckshot load for entries......never got any. We figured firing a 40mm HEDP load through the door would get their attention anyways.

How far would WP penetrate before going off....thru a door? That would be attention getting, too

[J35]

My brother did his AIT at FT Lewis in 1967 and told me about the point shooting training he did prior to his tour in Vietnam. He spoke highly of it.

----------J

[samb]

Bob in close, i.e. less than 50 yards I an a big fan of snap shooting. I also find if I am missing with a shotgun I tell myself stop thinking and start snap shooting those birds.
My favorite competitive shoot was the "Castle shoot" or "Firing in built up area's", the wall had five or six holes in it and you never knew which one the head target would pop up in, for about two seconds.

I think what you have described is a great skill. Once the fundamentals have been learned by an adult, snap shooting took me back to being a kid. Kids just naturally do, in a very uncomplicated way, with little thought, we all could use a dose of that now and again.

[Hagler]

Gentlemen,

Lucky McDaniel was THE man, when it came to instinct shooting. He worked with our military, and with Daisy, on both of their programs ("Quick Kill", and "Quick Skill"). He also taught instinct shooting with shotguns, and with handguns. His daughter was also involved in his teaching & exhibitions. In fact, I have a secondhand copy of Lucky's book "SECRETS TO SHOOTING", and he autographed it:

"9-16-80

To Sgt John Stritzinger III
a real Instinct Shooter, best wishes.
Lucky McDaniel".

Shawn

[guido4198]

I remember it well. In 1970 "Quick Kill" was part of my training. We were surprised how easy it was,( at least for those members of my unit who had previous firearms experience like myself) to hit dimes thrown into the air in front of a man armed with a Daisy..!!

[MrMurphy]

We weren't firing 'through' the door....it was a solid steel hatch. We were breaching the door then firing it through the opening.


Since we would have been following a few seconds later into a large enclosed area......WP was highly NOT desired.

But it will get your attention.