Condor Zone Barnes 300 gr Reload Help

[otteray]

darn lead free Condors.
Saying that, I feel better:
So, what I got are:
Barnes 300 TSX Flat Nose (Copper)
Powder Choices (what I have that are on Barnes' data):
ACC 5744
IMR SR 4759
IMR 4227
Brass:
Starline once (or twice) fired brass

LR Primers I have:
Win 8 1/2- 120 Primers
Fed No. 215 Magnum Rifle Primers
Fed 210 LR Primers
CCI NO.250 LR Magnum Primers
CCI BR-2 Benchrest primers
Barnes recommends primers I don't have (of course), Fed GM210M

Okay, the powders all average about 2000 fps with the starting loads.

So any suggestions to get me off on the right possible combo with what I have?
These 40 bullets cost more than my hunting license, so I'm trying to keep from wasting to much at the chronograph.
Thanks
Ray

[86er]

I will be working up a load sometime soon as I have a deer tag for D-5 and I believe it is in the Condor Zone - but I hope not. Anyway, if I get something going I'll PM you about it. I may scrap the idea and use a Barnes 140 gr in another caliber that I happen to know hits same POI as the ammo it is currently sighted in with. Just buying one box of factory ammo for a trip that should be one shot seems more time and money conservative in the big picture.

[AJMD429]

What cartridge...?

[otteray]

What cartridge...?

LOL That would help, huh? Sorry 'bout that!
It is a 45-70 Marlin Guide Gun with a ported barrel and Ballard rifling ( I assume) since it isn't microgrooved.

[Modoc ED]

I will be working up a load sometime soon as I have a deer tag for D-5 and I believe it is in the Condor Zone - but I hope not. Anyway, if I get something going I'll PM you about it. I may scrap the idea and use a Barnes 140 gr in another caliber that I happen to know hits same POI as the ammo it is currently sighted in with. Just buying one box of factory ammo for a trip that should be one shot seems more time and money conservative in the big picture.

D-5 is not in the Condor Zone/no-lead area. You will be able to hunt in Zones D3, D4, and D5 with a D5 tag.

[Terry Murbach]

I'D HAVE NEVER QUESSED AN UGLY OLD VULTURE LIKE A CONDOR WOULD BE THAT TOUGH. SO YOU GOTTA SHOOT HIM WITH AT LEAST A 405gr 45-70 BULLET HUH ??!!

[Mike D.]

If you are heading over this way to hunt the "D" zones, I presume that you intend to hunt private ground. The Nat'l forest and BLM lands are jam crammed with a neferious assortment of "wood rats" and "road dawgs" and I avoid them like the plague. I did draw a late season tag for the "G1" trophy buck area of Tehama County. We will be hunting a private piece above Mill Creek where my cousin took a 28" 4X4 last season. I'm still gonna sweat myself to death in the 100+º temps of "Condor Country" hunting the "A" zone come August and September, too.

[otteray]

Nope.
I'm going for pigs at Fort Hunter Liggett

[Mike D.]

Nope.
I'm going for pigs at Fort Hunter Liggett

I know that you are well aware of the "sit", ray. I was referring to Joe's coming to hunt D-5.

[Mike D.]

I don't treat Barnes TSXs any differently than I do jacketed lead. I use the same powder data, primers and Starline Brass for the .45-70 and .45-90. Not being familiar with the powders you are using I can offer no useful suggestions. Be prepared for higher MVs and a much higher POI at your target distance. These bullets are expensive, which leaves practice to only a few rounds of each load for tests.

[Modoc ED]

I don't treat Barnes TSXs any differently than I do jacketed lead. I use the same powder data, primers and Starline Brass for the .45-70 and .45-90. Not being familiar with the powders you are using I can offer no useful suggestions. Be prepared for higher MVs and a much higher POI at your target distance. These bullets are expensive, which leaves practice to only a few rounds of each load for tests.

Boy Howdy Mike, you sure are right about a much higher POI (point of impact) when using Barnes all copper bullets.

As yet, I have seen no good explanation as to why the POI is so different for the same weight standard bullet and the same weight copper bullet. What's your idea on this.

[Mike D.]

I don't treat Barnes TSXs any differently than I do jacketed lead. I use the same powder data, primers and Starline Brass for the .45-70 and .45-90. Not being familiar with the powders you are using I can offer no useful suggestions. Be prepared for higher MVs and a much higher POI at your target distance. These bullets are expensive, which leaves practice to only a few rounds of each load for tests.

Boy Howdy Mike, you sure are right about a much higher POI (point of impact) when using Barnes all copper bullets.

As yet, I have seen no good explanation as to why the POI is so different for the same weight standard bullet and the same weight copper bullet. What's your idea on this.

I haven't a clue, Ed. My experiences with the TSX only began last year, but the "phenomonon" surprised the heck out of us. At first I thought it was my fault, yet subsequent shots proved that to not be the case. With my old '95 Winchester '06 the POI was an amazing 9" above what regular Barnes 165s jacketed grouped. I had to crank the Lyman 56 down to the bottom to get a group that centered 2" above the bull. It has to be that the solid copper slips down the bore much easier than jacketed lead does. I noticed no increase in copper fouling, either. No need to clean the gun after a shooting session. I don't bother to clean the bores until after huntin' season ends. Sometimes the guns sit in the vehicle for days at a time.

I haven't chrono'd the .45 caliber TSXs, yet. Soon enough for that. A new tripod is in order after the top to mine disappeared somewhere.

[Modoc ED]

I don't treat Barnes TSXs any differently than I do jacketed lead. I use the same powder data, primers and Starline Brass for the .45-70 and .45-90. Not being familiar with the powders you are using I can offer no useful suggestions. Be prepared for higher MVs and a much higher POI at your target distance. These bullets are expensive, which leaves practice to only a few rounds of each load for tests.

Boy Howdy Mike, you sure are right about a much higher POI (point of impact) when using Barnes all copper bullets.

As yet, I have seen no good explanation as to why the POI is so different for the same weight standard bullet and the same weight copper bullet. What's your idea on this.

I haven't a clue, Ed. My experiences with the TSX only began last year, but the "phenomonon" surprised the heck out of us. At first I thought it was my fault, yet subsequent shots proved that to not be the case. With my old '95 Winchester '06 the POI was an amazing 9" above what regular Barnes 165s jacketed grouped. I had to crank the Lyman 56 down to the bottom to get a group that centered 2" above the bull. It has to be that the solid copper slips down the bore much easier than jacketed lead does. I noticed no increase in copper fouling, either. No need to clean the gun after a shooting session. I don't bother to clean the bores until after huntin' season ends. Sometimes the guns sit in the vehicle for days at a time.

I haven't chrono'd the .45 caliber TSXs, yet. Soon enough for that. A new tripod is in order after the top to mine disappeared somewhere.

I posted a separate thread on POI with Barnes bullets so as not to hi-jack this thread. Maybe we'll get some ideas in that thread. Thanks for your input.