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I'm slowly starting to plan on trying some cast bullets for my Savage 99 but after re-reading Ken's articles I'm a little hesitant of doing so. The first article he uses a Winchester 94BB and the other a Savage 99.
Not getting into the details but both rifles did not shoot well using cast bullets in fact he didn't post the results on the Savage 99 because that's how bad it was. He blames the fast twist rate (1:12) and shallow rifling for such poor performance. At the moment I can't remember what alloy he uses but he tried different sizes .375 to .378.
Both rifles have the same twist rate but I think the Savage 99 has the long barrel. Ken tried some heavier jacketed bullets in the Winchester 94BB just to see if the twist rate would stabilize which they did but accuracy was not that great.
I did have a Marlin 93 in 38-55 at one point that shot 265 grain cast bullets with no problem, was getting 1 1/2 shot groups and that was with 1:18 twist rate. I know how the twist rate theory works based on the bullets length and weight but it got me thinking why Ken had so much problems?
Slug your bore . I have some ranchdog 235gr GC that shot fine out my 375 when I had one. I use this bullet in a Win 94 , 38-55 with excellent results. My bullets are sized at .377 with barrels that slug .375. I'm not sure what bore the savages have. I know Winchesters are .375 and new Marlins are .378. If yours slugs at .375 I can send you some bullets to test.
BenT wrote:Slug your bore . I have some ranchdog 235gr GC that shot fine out my 375 when I had one. I use this bullet in a Win 94 , 38-55 with excellent results. My bullets are sized at .377 with barrels that slug .375. I'm not sure what bore the savages have. I know Winchesters are .375 and new Marlins are .378. If yours slugs at .375 I can send you some bullets to test.
I slugged the barrel awhile back and I posted it here: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... tight+bore. BenT, thanks for the offer on the cast bullets. I may take you up on the offer. I did fire some Winchester 200 grain factory loads a month or so ago and they grouped ok, 3" at 100 yards. I really don't have the time unfortunately to test different loads this summer. For now I may just try the Hornady 220 grain and call it good for now.
I wouldn't worry about the 1-12 twist.....Cast have worked fine in my 356 Winchester at what should be 2000 to 2100 fps, with that same twist and rifling. These are 200 and 210gr., on good days I have shot them into 3/4 inch groups at 55 yards. That's about as good as I can see.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Ken Waters is one of my favorite writers but...........I can't see where anyone can become an expert at "this cartridge or that cartridge" by shooting one or two rifles for a couple of weeks and then moving on to another cartridge. He sure does have the pressure thing down and his loads are on the money but.....each rifle is different.
I've never had an issue with the .375. Its nothing more than a skinny 38-55. Any rifling at any depth can be made to shoot good. Sometimes you just have to vary the alloy, bearing length, throat fit, and velocity.-------Sixgun
1st. Gen. Colt SAA’s, 1878 D.A.45 and a 38-55 Marlin TD
As mentioned throat fit is the key. In my Winchester the Lee 250-grain cast bullets shoots very well.
A good load with the Lee bullet in the Winchester is 27.5 grains of IMR 4198 which give me just shy of 1,850 fps. With iron sights from the bench I can shoot 2 ½ to 3” groups all of the time. I have shot a few smaller but its not that easy for me. I have a Williams receiver sight and the largest white bead I could find - it is a big bead.
28.5 grains of IMR 4198 is my max due to group sizes enlarging - this load give 1,925 fps. I have killed deer with this load and it does the deed very well.
A good lower velocity load is 31.0 grains of Hodgdon 4895 for 1,600+ fps. This load will shoot 2” groups if my target is big enough and the light is right, which means I cannot shoot a 2” group on demand.
Using fast powder for low velocity I can shoot a few smaller groups but those are not hunting loads.
2.8 grains of Alliant Bullseye will push the big lee bullet to 548 fps and at 50 yards you will shot some very nice three shot groups - you can say: “Watch this” as you sit down at the bench.
3.0 grains of Bullseye will give me about 557 fps and with not quite as good accuracy.
Be careful using fast powders in big cases, charge one case at a time and seat the bullet, you cannot afford a double charge.
BenT wrote:Mainehunter, just let me know if you want to try some. I use 34 gr of H4895 with excellent results.
Are you using 375 Winchester brass with the above powder charge? Just curious. Also was it you that did try out the Hornady 220 grain? If so do you mind sharing your loading data. Thanks!
I'm not shooting the 375, but I am shooting the 38-55 alot...........
I have three rifles in 38-55...one has 1-23 twist , another in 1-14 and the third is 1-12.
All of them are stupid accurate with a properly sized 20-1 lead cast bullet.
Unique, RL7, 4755, 4198.......matters not what powder. This cartridge is simply a very accurate bugger!
I have a TC contender barrel in 375 and just for giggles I shot some 38-55 cartridges through it. Better accuracy that I was getting with jacketed bullets in 375 cases.........go figure!
I have a pre USRA 375 with the thinner barrel and I have tried several different cast bullets with 4198, RL7 and 3031 to no avail, they all shot poorly. I have used a 240 cast with Red Dot and it shoots Ok as a practice load. The most accurate jacketed load is the Sierra 200 grain over 40.0 grains of AA1680. MV is 2400 fps and it shoots 3/4" groups at 50'. I chronographed the Winchester 200 grain loads, 1820 fps. This rifle heats up pretty fast so I only shoot three shot groups. This rifle has one of the smoothest actions of my 94's.
william iorg wrote:As mentioned throat fit is the key. In my Winchester the Lee 250-grain cast bullets shoots very well.
A good load with the Lee bullet in the Winchester is 27.5 grains of IMR 4198 which give me just shy of 1,850 fps. With iron sights from the bench I can shoot 2 ½ to 3” groups all of the time. I have shot a few smaller but its not that easy for me. I have a Williams receiver sight and the largest white bead I could find - it is a big bead.
28.5 grains of IMR 4198 is my max due to group sizes enlarging - this load give 1,925 fps. I have killed deer with this load and it does the deed very well.
A good lower velocity load is 31.0 grains of Hodgdon 4895 for 1,600+ fps. This load will shoot 2” groups if my target is big enough and the light is right, which means I cannot shoot a 2” group on demand.
Using fast powder for low velocity I can shoot a few smaller groups but those are not hunting loads.
2.8 grains of Alliant Bullseye will push the big lee bullet to 548 fps and at 50 yards you will shot some very nice three shot groups - you can say: “Watch this” as you sit down at the bench.
3.0 grains of Bullseye will give me about 557 fps and with not quite as good accuracy.
Be careful using fast powders in big cases, charge one case at a time and seat the bullet, you cannot afford a double charge.
I have two 375's and my experience follows closely what Slim stated above. Each of these 375 rifles has a personality of it's own so it is to be expected that our experience would differ slightly. My rifles differ from Ken Waters in small details as my results are not identical to his. The point being that we sometimes get differing performance....not wrong.... just different.
One of my rifles will group 3 inches at 100 yards.....consistently. The other will group a lot smaller at 1 1/2 inches. Why the difference? I don't know. Manufacturing tolerances is my guess.
Guys, I would also see if Paul Matthews has written anything on the .375 and cast. I am very fond of Ken Waters, but Matthews seems more adept at making cast perform in rifles that aren't supposed to shoot well with cast. Might also want to consider fooling with paper patched.
The fast twist would seem best for longer bullets compared to bore diameter.
