POLITICS - The latest shooting...

Comal Forge · Post by **Comal Forge** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:57 am

If you listen to the analyses on the latest campus shooting, you will hear comments like "there were no warning signs", "he was an outstanding student", "he bought the guns legally", etc. The only clue was that he was off his meds and acting "erratically".

You will also hear messages today such as "we need to do a better job of screening applicants before they can buy a gun" and a few calls to completely ban guns from everyone but law enforcement. I think the anti-gun crowd will push the first one - but what will be the criteria for deciding who is safe, sane or sage enough to purchase a firearm?

Folks, the pain will be immense if the Dems get into office. I don't like McCain much at all but could he be the lesser of two evils?

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:10 am

I can't believe that Republicans are lying down to have this liberal shill shoved down their throats.

Conservatives need to pony up a better candidate.

After GWB, McCain will seal the absolute downfall of the Republican party from power.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:22 pm

"The only clue was that he was off his meds and acting "erratically".

This is why we will have a law that prohibits firearms ownership by those on mental illness control meds, or receiving treatment for mental illness. You can't trust them to stay on their meds.

As a very conservative Christian voter, I like John McCain ok. I will continue to support him.

Yance · Post by **Yance** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:10 pm

And this poll on Chicagoland radio.

Please hit this poll on the bottom left.

http://wgnradio.com

Looks like 2/3 brainwashed sheep.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:16 pm

This is why we will have a law that prohibits firearms ownership by those on mental illness control meds, or receiving treatment for mental illness. You can't trust them to stay on their meds.

No way! Too much nit-picking and nonsense; who defines 'mental illness' or 'mental illness meds' who reports to who, what are the penalties, what sort of definition for 'ownership' (same household? What if grandma lives with you and took prozac up until last month? Which of her doctors fills out the forms to which government agency showing that you no longer have to have the other government agency come in and inspect to see that your firearms are locked in a safe she has no key to, and so on...?

Keep it SIMPLE:

If someone is so dangerous they can't be trusted, they need to be off the streets. Otherwise, no stupid gun laws. Bad guys will get them anyway. Just let the good guys have them too so the playing field is level.

If an individual school wants to mandate a 5,000 deposit that they will keep if you bring a gun on campus as a student or faculty, and wants all guests to pass through metal detectors, fine. I don't have to send my kids there. Let the rest of us have the option of a school that allows or even encourages CCW, and teaches 'gun safety' instead of 'government dependence' and 'awareness of backstop' instead of 'how to act submissive when you're about to be shot.' The hoplophobes don't have to send their kids to MY school, and I don't have to send mine to theirs, but once the government gets it's nose out of things, we'll see which school has the safest campus.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:03 pm

This is why we will have a law that prohibits firearms ownership by those on mental illness control meds, or receiving treatment for mental illness. You can't trust them to stay on their meds.

Now, hang on, Skippy..........I take an anti-depressant. Like, probably 99% of us who do, skipping a med does nothing but make us anxious, not dangerous. Dang, Buddy, that shot you fired has been heard around the world...thanks for nothing.

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:09 pm

Comal Forge wrote:If you listen to the analyses on the latest campus shooting, you will hear comments like "there were no warning signs", "he was an outstanding student", "he bought the guns legally", etc. The only clue was that he was off his meds and acting "erratically".

It's just the libtards way of refusing to admit that "gun-free zones" are a magnet for psyco's that want to kill unabated (since they know there won't be anyone with a gun to stop them).

These homicidal maniacs are crazy - not stupid...

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:25 pm

Yance wrote:And this poll on Chicagoland radio.

Please hit this poll on the bottom left.

http://wgnradio.com

Looks like 2/3 brainwashed sheep.

What would you expect from a state like that?

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:33 pm

"Looks like 2/3 brainwashed sheep."

I'd say more like 90%. I'm telling you the law I mentioned is coming.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:35 pm

Yup, & then after that, just to be fair, they'll take yours & mine.
After all, everyone going to therapy or on meds wasn't once. How will they decide who will go crazy? Much easier to just ban guns.

Sometimes I'm as amazed by things gun owners say as I am the things that come out of Sarah Bradys mouth.

This is why McCain & the rest are bad news & RP, the one everyone discounted & refused to vote for is the ONLY choice. I dont find the guy all that fantastic. I wish there was a more apealing or charismatic conservative candidate but theres not. Theres not even another conservative running.

A message needs being sent & voteing in McCain isn't sending it.

The Lewis · Post by **The Lewis** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:05 pm

What meds for what illness? was never mentioned in the reports I read, only that he was acting strange since stopping his meds. Need more info on that I'd say.

Swampman, I've seen your myopic views on this too often here. Stop being an butt.

The Lewis · Post by **The Lewis** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:07 pm

Wow, instant editing, I said stop being an a**.

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:52 pm

BlaineG wrote:
This is why we will have a law that prohibits firearms ownership by those on mental illness control meds, or receiving treatment for mental illness. You can't trust them to stay on their meds.
Now, hang on, Skippy..........I take an anti-depressant. Like, probably 99% of us who do, skipping a med does nothing but make us anxious, not dangerous. Dang, Buddy, that shot you fired has been heard around the world...thanks for nothing.

I think you misunderstood him. He wasn't advocating said law - just predicting it would be pushed on us.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:08 pm

I think you misunderstood him. He wasn't advocating said law - just predicting it would be pushed on us.

No offence cubrock but I think your mistaken.

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:10 pm

Leverdude wrote:
I think you misunderstood him. He wasn't advocating said law - just predicting it would be pushed on us.
No offence cubrock but I think your mistaken.

Wouldn't be the first time.

I just reread the post in question and can see how it can easily be interpreted either way. Guess I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. I would most certainly be against said law, that is for sure!

greasy dan · Post by **greasy dan** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:12 pm

from Yance... "And this poll on Chicagoland radio..."

Wow. Cannot believe it... 73% out of nearly 123-thousand who voted, want to make it harder to get a gun... across the board. Wow.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:52 pm

"I think you misunderstood him. He wasn't advocating said law - just predicting it would be pushed on us."

I wasn't advocating a gun law. I do advocate keeping nuts in the nut house like they use too in the good ole days. Now they take the clever out of their hand, give them a bottle of happy drugs and send them out to kill again.

Doctors who turn these people loose, should be personally held accountable for their actions.

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:14 am

AJMD429 wrote:

If someone is so dangerous they can't be trusted, they need to be off the streets. Otherwise, no stupid gun laws. Bad guys will get them anyway. Just let the good guys have them too so the playing field is level.

A-men brother, figure in crimes of passion and all the rest. Before there was a pill for everything you still had people killin' people. I'll take my chances with an armed society. At least I'll have a chance, our Constitution/Bill of

Rights is all about a level playing field, give into fear and the level field gets unlevel.

Bunkloco

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:45 am

Swampman wrote:

Doctors who turn these people loose, should be personally held accountable for their actions.

Not to get confrontational in this kinder gentler Leverguns forum

but I do think the accountability lies with:

#1 The guy who pulls the trigger.

#2 The government officials who erode a citizens Right to Keep and Bear Arms, thus "un-leveling" the chances of personal protection/survival.

Government can't protect me, Doctors treating/not treating people can't protect me. Me packin' is my best protection. I'm always on the job, and I have the most to lose should things go awry, thus I'll be trying the hardest along

the lines of protecting myself.

Bunkloco

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:25 am

FWiedner wrote:

I can't believe that Republicans are lying down to have this liberal shill shoved down their throats.

Smoke & mirrors, repubs vs. dems.

FWiedner wrote:

Conservatives need to pony up a better candidate.

Have one (my opinion and his voting record), ridiculed, poo pooed by the media, ambushed or ignored by his own party, ignored by Republicans because of perceieved threats, (fears).

FWiedner wrote:

After GWB, McCain will seal the absolute downfall of the Republican party from power.

This party needs an enema. Really scary who so called conservative Republicans will settle for. Fear is killing us. But, the movement back to our Constitution is growing.

Bunkloco

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:32 am

A conservative cannot be elected. Ron Paul is too whacky/extreme for me and I've been a conservative Republican since I was 22 years old.

Do I like John McCain? No! Will I vote for him again? Yes....He's all we've got right now.

Teek · Post by **Teek** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:11 am

I would have to hold my nose to vote for McCain. As for the poll, 79% think guns should be harder to get. As has been mentioned....how? The guy was "trustworthy" enough to be a *******' prison guard, for Pete's sake!!!

The guy never showed any outward indication that he would do something like this. I wonder what would have happened if a guy went nuts at the Super Bowl this year instead? Oh, the Dems and the Brady Bunch would have a field day if that happened.

We are not a society of prior restraint. That is, we do not punish the whole of society for what a tiny minority might maybe perhaps possibly sometime in the iffy future could do. But it seems to be headed that way.....the government looking out for us...ya know, "for our own good". If that's the case, I'd wished they stopped being so good to me! (liberally paraphrased from a scene in the movie, "Cool Hand Luke")

We should punish behavior, not what someone could do, but probably won't. Nothing would have legally stopped this guy...he would have qualified for a pump action shotgun even with stricter laws.

Teek

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:12 am

someday I'll learn

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:19 am

I like "the choices we have today". I'd vote for President Bush again if I could.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:12 am

Swampman wrote:A conservative cannot be elected. Ron Paul is too whacky/extreme for me and I've been a conservative Republican since I was 22 years old.

Do I like John McCain? No! Will I vote for him again? Yes....He's all we've got right now.

I like "the choices we have today". I'd vote for President Bush again if I could.

Seems like a citizen who supports both Bush and McCain wouldn't be a conservative, nor would he be a Republican.

He'd be much more a liberal RINO, because both Bush and McCain are liberal RINOs.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:42 pm

Calling yourself a conservative dont make you one. It dont make McCain one, dont make Bush one & it dont make a voter one.
Course in this day and age folks will call a cat a dog if enough people say its true.
That theres still people willing to call Bush or McCain conservative is proof of that. Real conservatives are considered radical by modern Republicans. No wonder we're going down the tubes. I'll take a conservative radical over a liberal hypocrite every day. But thats just me, I still like liberty.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:00 pm

I'll take a winner over a loser any day. A loser is nothing, and can do nothing.

Ron Paul, Al Gore, and John Kerry are losers.

George Bush and John McCain are winners. I support winners.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:55 pm

Hitler was a winner too. Freely elected by people unwilling to think for themselves.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:24 pm

Hitler was elected by a nation of people that thought exactly the way he did. They thought rounding up people that were different was cool. We have a lot of Americans that feel the same way today. Hitler was a conservative....perhaps a little too conservative.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:31 pm

They thought rounding up people that were different was cool.

No, they thought they were winners as long as their man won.
A man can win an election & still be a loser.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:39 pm

Swampman wrote:Hitler was elected by a nation of people that thought exactly the way he did. They thought rounding up people that were different was cool. We have a lot of Americans that feel the same way today. Hitler was a conservative....perhaps a little too conservative.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Swampman wrote: Personally I believe anyone who needs medication to maintain their mental health, shouldn't have acess to firearms or weapons of any sort. I think they should be kept away from the general population because the second they decide they don't need meds anymore and quit taking them they kill or injure someone.

Medication isn't good enough to prevent the constant danger these people present to me and my family.

Your opinion on thissubject is worthless.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:42 pm

Your opinion on this subject is tainted.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:46 pm

Leverdude wrote:Hitler was a winner too. Freely elected by people unwilling to think for themselves.

I had to review how Hitler got in as my brain has forgotten alot of what I've read. He never won the majority that I can tell, but powered/intrigued his way in to wear down and eventually take over from Hindenburgh as Chancellor. Here is what looks to be a pretty good series of links on that:
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/r ... r/runs.htm

I'm not sure about McCain, his politics that is. I like Huckabee but don't know how he would get the nom. at this point. However, I haven't viewed anything yet that makes McCain a true died in the wool Socialist(notice I am avoiding party labeling

).. However, if Hillary or Obama win, we will have a good socialist who will overtly work to undermine our 2nd ammendment rights, and who will very likely go along with International(UN) efforts at disarming civilians worldwide. That could well be another Hitler scenario. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to keep them out of office at this point and try and do damage control on the Republicans afterward. I agree we probably have a poor bargain at this point but it is what it is. I may well be wrong, but It's what I'm feeling at this point.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:38 pm

If McCain and the NRA is "ALL" or the "BEST" we've got, we've already lost.

Swampman, your insulting bigoted comments are out of line. Why don't YOU go take a chill pill and take up knitting or something.

Joe

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:54 pm

Swampman wrote:How's it going with the meds?

I am very disappointed Swampy. That's really low. Why where how do you think comments like that are manly?

During your bull headed face-off with OI on the meds issue (which I disagreed with you wholeheartedly), I kept my mouth shut for the most part, but this must stop. OI is not the only person you toss these snide comments at. LeverBar comes to mind .... Comments like that spoken face-to-face are cause for a fight.

That type of attack is not welcome in any of my friend's camps.

Please be more thoughtful of others.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:56 pm

Leverdude wrote:Calling yourself a conservative dont make you one. It dont make McCain one, dont make Bush one & it dont make a voter one.
Course in this day and age folks will call a cat a dog if enough people say its true.
That theres still people willing to call Bush or McCain conservative is proof of that. Real conservatives are considered radical by modern Republicans. No wonder we're going down the tubes. I'll take a conservative radical over a liberal hypocrite every day. But thats just me, I still like liberty.

Amen!

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:03 pm

Swampman wrote:"The only clue was that he was off his meds and acting "erratically".

This is why we will have a law that prohibits firearms ownership by those on mental illness control meds, or receiving treatment for mental illness. You can't trust them to stay on their meds.

As a very conservative Christian voter, I like John McCain ok. I will continue to support him.

Give them all guns. Give us all guns. Delete these gun free zones. Delete the wackos. Simple.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:52 pm

"Give them all guns. Give us all guns. Delete these gun free zones. Delete the wackos. Simple."

It will come to that. As we get closer to the end, there are more zombies on meds than there are normal people.

GreenHunter · Post by **GreenHunter** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:43 pm

What the anti-gun crowd does not understand is after they have rendered us all defenseless, we will still be subjected to attacks such as the one rendered last week on a NYC Psychologist. She was hacked up in her office with a meat cleaver! The police only arrive if someone is able to call 911 and they'll get there in time to fill out a report on what happened.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:36 am

It will come to that. As we get closer to the end, there are more zombies on meds than there are normal people.

Where did that come from & whats it mean? Hows it relevant or remotely constructive?

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:01 am

It means our country continues to become an assylum. The doctors hand out happy pills by the fist fulls, and eveybodys on some kind of dope. Just say no to drugs.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:48 am

But whats your point? You said earlier that folks on medication shouldn't have guns. Now your saying that most everyones going to be on drugs.

The only thing that should IMO preclude people from gun ownership is a previous violent criminal history or a truly mentally handicapped person.
A guy who's depressed because of personal issues & gets prescribed antidepressants should not be persecuted.

Sentiments like I hear from you lead directly to switching the blame from the idiot behind the trigger to the greater gun owning public.

Nobody was to blame for VT except the jerk with the gun, nobody was to blame for this more recent tragedy but the jerk with the gun.

We cant pick & choose who gets to have a right & who dont in such an arbitrary manner. If that becomes accepted its only a matter of time before someone gets to you. Maybe your neighbor sees you hanging guns on your porch to take pictures & thinks your looney. Maybe a prosecutor agrees & requests you undergo an evaluation & the shrink recomends counseling or chemical treatment. Think thats nuts? theres alot of shrinks out there that will think you suffer from paranoia simply because you have a gun, let alone a collection.

I can accept violent criminals being repressed but not potentially violent people. We are all potentially violent. Thats why we have a need to protect ourselves.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:18 am

My point is we no longer keep the crazys in cells. We give them drugs and turn them loose.

You can't depend on a mentally ill person to self medicate.

The doctor knows that when they turn them loose on society.

You don't see a problem?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:07 am

Swampman wrote:My point is we no longer keep the crazys in cells. We give them drugs and turn them loose.

And 13.5 MILLION (NIMH) OF THEM HURT NO ONE YESTERDAY.

Just like 80 MILLION Gun Owners hurt NO ONE yesterday.

You can't depend on a mentally ill person to self medicate.

13.5 MILLION people with "Serious" (requiring daily medication) did just fine in following their prescription.

Why are you so intent on blaming 13.5 MILLION people for the actions of a handful - just like the Anti Gunners want to blame all of us for the misuse of inanimate objects?

The doctor knows that when they turn them loose on society.

The U.S. Surgeon General has reported that the likelihood of violence by people with mental illness is low. In fact, "the overall contribution of mental disorders to the total level of violence in society is exceptionally small." More often, people living with mental illness are the victims of violence. http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/

Overall, the amount of violence committed by people with schizophrenia is small, and only 1 percent of the U.S. population has schizophreniaâ€¦ By comparison, about 2 percent of the general population without psychiatric disorder engages in any violent behavior in a one-year period.

You don't see a problem?

Only with Bigotry.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:27 am

Swampman wrote:My point is we no longer keep the crazys in cells. We give them drugs and turn them loose.

You can't depend on a mentally ill person to self medicate.

The doctor knows that when they turn them loose on society.

You don't see a problem?

Do you honestly believe that everyone on medication today was once locked up? Dr's dont turn people loose anyway, we do. We permit mental illness as an excuse for atrocities when it shouldn't matter if your sane or nuts when you commit a crime.
I see alot of problems. Law abiding people with guns just arent one. I'll never support the idea of prosecuting a person be cause of what they might do.
That Sir is about as unAmerican as anything I'v ever heard.

The problem in THIS case is people arent allowed to defend themselves. Bullets stopped the victims & a bullet would have stopped the perpetrator.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:42 am

I support keeping the mentally ill confined period.....common sense isn't bigotry or unAmerican.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:00 am

You can not argue with Swampy guys. He's as dogmatic about this as a person can be about anything. Facts will never sway him.

We disagree with him and that will never change.

It ticks me off, but can we stop this thread before we all get bent again?

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:07 am

Tycer wrote:You can not argue with Swampy guys. He's as dogmatic about this as a person can be about anything. Facts will never sway him.

We disagree with him and that will never change.

It ticks me off, but can we stop this thread before we all get bent again?

+1

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:44 am

The thread does not to be locked. Noxious, bigoted, unAmerican opinions need to be repudiated.

I will Repudiate a Nazi wheneve I see their drivel posted, and I will Repudiate a Bigot, of whatever stripe, whenever I see their drivel posted.

13.5 MILLION people with HIMH classed "serious" neurocemical disorders - (those who, like diabetics, must take daily medication,) in NO WAY deserve to be shoved into Cattle Cars and locked away in "Common Sense" concentration camps.

Liberal Opinions are misguided. Wanting to lock away 13+ MILLION people is Evil.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Have at it boys, I don't have the stomach for it. I spent a year working on a two man team with a man so mired in dogma and misshapen thought I thought I would die.

You are right OI, and those of us not clouded by fear and wrong-thinking agree with you 1000%.

A lie left unchallenged becomes truth. You have certainly challenged them to the point of proving their falsehood.

My advice is go kiss that bride of yours and burn some powder.

She should be very proud of you, I hope she knows what lengths you've gone to to educate us about the unfairness and potential oppression the laws in their current state have left you and the millions like you.

I thank you.

POLITICS - The latest shooting...

POLITICS - The latest shooting...

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