Cap & Ball Load Life

[Blaine]

Just supposin'.........Let's say a few years from now, the hoops are just too hard to jump thru, but a fella could keep a percussion revolver around, how long would the load be reliable once loaded up? Let's assume 777 because it don't corrode.

[Old Ironsights]

Can't say about 777, but with BP a properly loaded C&B sealed in a humidity-proof bag should shoot today, tommorrow &/or 150yrs+ from now.

People are forever finding great-great-grandaddy's flintlock in an attic - with powder & ball loaded - prime the pan and BOOM.

[bogus bill]

Grease up the front, put away in a dry place and I wouldnt want anyone shooting at me with it 200 years later!

[C. Cash]

As I understand it, Black powder that is still unburned won't cause corrosion if left loaded in the bore. It is only the products of the burned bp that suck in moisture and cause corrosion. Taking a firearm from a cold outside to a warm inside can cause moisture to foul the powder for sure. Leave it outside in a safe place if it's cold, or in some part of your house that isn't heated. Personally, though often maligned, I've had good luck with letting a thin film of WD-40 dry in the bore(my last operation in cleaning a bp bore), loading it up, and having no trouble BP going off when I'm ready to shoot. That way there is some small amount of protection in the bore even when left loaded but it is a dry film that won't foul the powder or flash channel.

[Old Ironsights]

As for carry... if you have properly tight caps on the nipples you can even do just about aything but extended submersion in the RioGrande and they will still shoot.

[Blaine]

Interesting.....thank you, Gents.....

[C. Cash]

Forgot to say.... I do believe burned 777 will eventually corrode like burned black powder if left uncleaned. It is not(or wasn't when it came out at least) a totally non-corrosive powder. It supposedly just fouls less. I've only used Pyrodex and Goex BP so I'm not speaking from experience on 777, but that is how I understand it to be.

[Hobie]

I have personally left a percussion revolver loaded for 8 years or so and every chamber went off, no hang fires, etc. Used Pyrodex P and no problems with corrosion. PROPERLY loaded, they work.

[Blaine]

I hunted with a .54 Renegade for a couple years a long time ago...My only BP experience..Used Pyrodex P...Never kept it loaded more than a day....I must have been doing something wrong, because it often went "click" instead of boom

[Old Ironsights]

I hunted with a .54 Renegade for a couple years a long time ago...My only BP experience..Used Pyrodex P...Never kept it loaded more than a day....I must have been doing something wrong, because it often went "click" instead of boom

Coulda been a couple of things...

#1 with a bullet... the cap wasn't seated firmly on the nipple.
#2 - bad cap.

If the cap went "pop" but no Boom, then:

#3 Plugged nipple &/or vent. A long thin wire/"nipple pick" can fix that.

BP can get wet, but once it dries out it will go boom just as good as before. Dunno about Subs. Maybe you still had water in the breech from swabbing &/or thermal-condensation?

[deerwhacker444]

I have personally left a percussion revolver loaded for 8 years or so

I've got to ask....why 8 years sitting loaded..?

[JerryB]

I have left my Kentucky rifle loaded from one season to the next and it fired with the first cap. That was with a patched round ball and 3fg black powder.

[Nath]

I hunted with a .54 Renegade for a couple years a long time ago...My only BP experience..Used Pyrodex P...Never kept it loaded more than a day....I must have been doing something wrong, because it often went "click" instead of boom

Some modern reproduction guns have nipples with way to fine a hole in them. Every Pedersoli shotgun I have owned I have had to open the nipples to .040" to get reliable ignition.
I'd use one of them revolvers for defense if I could, just imagine your assasin's face when you give some back!

Say Mr Cash, watch that there mineral oil and BP, they don't mix to good!

Good fire.

Nath.

[C. Cash]

Say Mr Cash, watch that there mineral oil and BP, they don't mix to good!

Good fire.

Nath.

Thanks Nath. It seems to dry up and leave a thin residue film. Are you talking about trouble with these two elements in the rifle, or the two coming in contact outside and creating a fire? I will always keep the two seperate in their containers of course and never bring them together. Ballistol which is a popular bp solvent/protectant also has alot of mineral oil if I recall correctly. Love the smell of that stuff!

[Charles]

In the days of yore, it was the caps that were the weak point. When trouble was brewing the old timers put fresh caps on the nipples. To weatherproof the caps/nipples some folks dripped candle wax on them. It was said that Bill Hitchcock pulled the loads on his Colt Navies each night. I am not certain I believe that, but I read it somewhere years back.

[C. Cash]

Deleted for waxing off topic.

[jhrosier]

When I shot my newly acquired '60 Army last month, it was with fffg powder that had been in my flask in a box in the cellar since I quit shooting muzzleloaders in the early '80s. It worked without any problem and shot quite well, in fact. I had bought some new caps but used some old Remington #11s that were also laying around for decades to clear the nipples the first time. They all fired as well.

If I was to keep a C&B revolver loaded for a length of time, I would consider painting around the edges of the caps with some water-proofing material to keep the moisture out. I've heard of folks dripping some candle wax around the nipples of muzzle loaders to water proof them.

If possible, firing the gun every couple of weeks and then cleaning and reloading it would not be a bad idea either.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has read any historical comments about how people did this back in the mid 1800s.

Jack

[Hobie]

I have personally left a percussion revolver loaded for 8 years or so

I've got to ask....why 8 years sitting loaded..?

Like the bear who went over the mountain, I just wanted to see what I could see. I.e. to see if it would still shoot and how well. Carried it a lot of places, kept it in a lot of conditions (but not out in the rain). Shot it and got 5 proper shots.

[Malamute]

There was a guy on The High Road forum that bought a pair of Colts, an 1851 Navy, and an 1860 Army that had been found under the floor of a barn (along with several Spencers). The place had been in the family since before the Civil War. The Navy had some corrosion and rust on one side, like it had lain in moisture or water at some point, tho both had been wrapped in oily rags. They were still loaded. He replaced the caps, and they both fired. The Army was fine, the Navy had some fizz-bangs, but fired.

Back in the day, many caps were waterproof. Didnt someone on the forum here recently experiment with some caps and primers. Left in a cup of water for a week, and they all fired?

My percussion revolvers are loaded, as long as I've owned them for the most part. If they get shot, they get cleaned and loaded again straight away. Oil is the main enemy of caps, not moisture, I believe. I load mine in a bone dry chamber, and cap them, crisco over the balls, then run a patch with some olive oil down the barrel. All done.

I believe genuine black powder ignites easier than replican or substitute powders, if you're concerned about reliabilty, I'd stay with black. I don't believe I've ever tried or used substitutes, I've heard enough troubles with them igniting, and corroding guns. Black is fine.

"I've got to ask....why 8 years sitting loaded..?" Why not? All my guns, percussion or cartridge, are loaded all the time for the most part. I grab a percussion Army or Dragoon to go out into the yard. They hang on a nail or in a holster by the front door. What better use for them? "Working Art" is how I see them.

I'd love to shoot a buffalo with the Dragoon, a later made Colt's.

[Old Ironsights]

... Shot it and got 5 proper shots.

Ahhhh... a safety nazi... afraid of a 6-shooter are we?

[HATCHETTJACK]

blaine, i leave my pietta 44 loaded for months and have never had a problem, i use pyrodex also.. mine is stainless so that helps too.. lotsa humidity here in carolina, just wipe mine down every once in awhile

[Old Time Hunter]

I've got a '60 Colt "New" Army loaded with 25 grains of Pyrodex P, some of those Lee conical's on top of lubed wads...been loaded since a year ago last Thanksgiving. We'll see if we can lite 'em off next Thanksgiving. If they don't fire, I'll be sell'n a 1860 Model Uberti, 44 cal....never fired.

[Doc Hudson]

It is said that Wild Bill Hickok fired, cleaned and reloaded his Modle 1851 Colt Navy Revolfvers every morning. Why so often? 1 - Practice to keep his aim good. 2 - An opportunity to show off his skill with a revolver and impress admirers and intimidate would be opponents. 3 - Ensure that his pistols would shoot reliably every time.

At the other end of the spectrum we have a scruffy old buzzard who leaves loaded cap-and-ball revolvers laying about loaded for 8 years at a time.

I'm in the middle. My muzzled-loading rifle will stay loaded for long periods of time. And my .36 Navy Colt will stay loaded for months or even years at the time. In each instance, they go bang with every pull of the trigger.

In fact, once upon a time I had a canoe mishap on the Tallapoosa River just below Horseshoe Bend. My old Navy Colt and I spent about an hour in the water. The chamber mouths were greased but no special effort had been made to waterproof the revolver.

Later that day, I thought I'd try to fire away the charges in an effort to avoid having to draw the charges. All chambers fired. Some went "BOOM!!!" and some went "pFFFFFt!" but they all fired.

I can't say how your imitation blackpowder will work. For one thing it hasn't been around long enough for anyone to know for certain, and for another, I haven't and won't use the stuff. IMO, blackpowder substitutes are answers to unasked questions. Blackpowder will virtually last forever, and if you load it into a clean gun and use non-corrosive caps, you don't have to worry about corrosion at all.

[Ysabel Kid]

Proper loading, proper storage, and as noted, you should be fine. IIRC, blackpowder, its substitutes, and most smokeless powder is pretty hydroscopic. I think that is where some problems pop up - if there is a way (such as through the nipple that has not been properly capped) for mositure to penetrate into the load - or sit against the metal. As Chris stated, it is the residue of ignited blackpowder that become highly corrosive.

Charles - I read the same thing about Wild Bill - and others who made their living by the gun.

[AmBraCol]

Years ago I kept a Ruger Old Army as my "pillow pistol" - it was all I had and it was pretty good. I took to loading it with a substitute powder instead of "holy black" - and used Wonderlube on Lee conicals I had in it. It would stay loaded for months at a time. One time we were about to go on a trip and I wanted to take it with me - but unloaded. So I stepped out into the back yard and and cut loose. The first chamber fired - no problem. The second one just went "click", the third one went BOOOOOM!, the fourth I couldn't ear the hammer back. Stepped back into the light, saw exit hole on the left side of the barrel. Since I was wearing hearing protection I didn't hear the second one go "bang", but apparently it did. With enough force to drive the Lee conical into the barrel. The third smacked into the second and they both "exited stage left". The lever latch under the barrel departed to parts unknown. The barrel was ruined but the rest of the gun was fine. I was sick. Well it made the trip back up the US the same way it left and was eventually sent back to Ruger along with a check for a new barrel. I've always wondered what they said when they opened the box. They shipped it back as good as new and I traded it off soon after.

Anyway, beware what you use for lube. If it can leak back and foul the powder - it WILL. If I were planning on leaving a cap and ball loaded for a period of time I'd seriously consider doing so with FFFg, a card wad, a lubed felt wad, a round ball and then tallow grease over the mouth of the chamber. Tight fitting caps are a MUST, no pinching of a loose cap to "make it fit" since you're inviting a chain fire that way and leaving it open to humidity. Seal the front well and the rear as well and it should keep well for decades - or longer. My mishap came from using a liquidy lube that oozed back and contaminated the ill advised charge of substitute powder. By using something more suited to the task I'd have never had a problem with it I'm sure. Live and learn. Some mistakes are expensive, I'm just glad that all I had to replace was the barrel and latch and that no body parts were harmed in the incident.

[gamekeeper]

Chapter 17 of "The Black Powder Handgun" by Sam Fadala is all about Load longevity.

[Nath]

Mr cash, mineral oils react with BP soot to make a thick hard to remove tar. Also it will still alow rust to form, trust me.
Use a vegoil or animal fat. I mix beeswax with olive oil to give a good firm grease that melt easy and flows every where when the gun is warmed on the stove or with hot water as with my shotguns.

I was out one day in heavy rain with my shot gun. Numerous times I watched rain water running down the barrels and dripping off the nipples when it was propped up while I lit my pipe. The shot gun never missed a beat all day.
I will say this, damp days make cleaning alot easier!

I used my shotgun yesterday but charged it the day before, worked fine and I have left it charged ready for Saturday with the hammers down on thick leather covering the nipples. The bores have been jagged with my grease and I will again later.

Some good comments on this one, really enjoyable and I take my hat off to you old guy's still using them as nature intended Man I feel safe around here!

Nath.

[C. Cash]

Thank you Nath. I will give it the once over then with a completely dry patch/pipe cleaner before I load up, and will see if I have an easier time cleaning. I have to admit, I've been nearly froze in my house all winter, and have not had the chance to do any BP shooting. Have to remedy that soon and get a report up. Best to you and yours.

[Nath]

Best wishes to you and yours too.
I often wonder how some of you guys go holed up in your burrows through the harder winter than we have over here, take care now

Nath.