Glass Eyes For My M71

[Idiot]

Well guys, it looks like I'm going to put a scope on my M71. My old eyes can still hit reliably out to 100 yards with peep sights, but if I'm going to fully exploit the benefits of a flat shooting levergun and make reliable hits past 200 yards, a little glass assistance is necessary.

However, I'm not really sure what route to take. My receiver was drilled for a side mount long before I obtained it, so I can go that route. I used to own an older top eject Winchester 30-30 with a side mount and it worked well. No spent cases got hung up on the scope upon ejection. But the 348 Winchester case is a lot wider than a 30-30 case. If you all have some advise in this area, I'd like to hear it.

The other route is to mount a scope forward of the ejection port - like a "scout scope." This would require drilling holes on the top front of the receiver (I think) and perhaps forward on the barrel (I think the forward screws could be drilled into a modified dove tail blank instead of directly into the barrel) to hold down a one piece scope base; o-o-o-o-o-o maybe even one of those picatinny thingies for a tactical look to scare the heck out of bear sows and such. I've only shot a couple guns with forward mounted scopes and they seem okay. They're just a little unfamiliar to me. Any thoughts?

Any advise guys? Oh, I should add, this is a hunting rifle, not a collector's piece, and I have a slew of other leverguns I can use when I want to feel "traditional."

[Ben_Rumson]

Start with the side mount that fits the screw hole pattern on your receiver.. see how that works & go from there...

[Yodar]

My advice would be to leave the Model 71 unchanged.
The .348 WCF is not particularly flat shooting.
It is called hunting, not shooting. Get closer.
If you absolutely have to shoot past 200 yards, get a scope-sighted, bolt-action rifle in a flat shooting caliber.

[Hobie]

I wouldn't alter it any further. As suggested, use the mount that goes with the current holes. I think all 71s in shootable condition are close to collectible, even the Brownings. I also support the idea of getting closer.

[RANisbet]

Many years ago I wanted to have a scope on my lever gun.
The rifle already had factory original side holes for a sight mounting base, sort of like what you would see for a Lyman peep sight.
The problem was that the holes were too close together to offer sufficient strength to keep the scope from slight movements thereby changing the zero.
I created my own mount design.
It was custom made from a billet of steel and blued.
A friend machined it at no cost to me and my local gunsmith tossed it in his bluing tank as a courtesy, no charge.
I have been using this for about 25 years.
Works great. Rock solid.
My design is not for a 71, but it could have been!

Any good gunsmith or machinist could design you a custom mount that would work for the "71" and match drill it to utilize the holes that are there in your receiver.
Talk it up and see what ideas you get.

[Pepe Ray]

Well Idiot! Don't know why you chose that handle because it doesn't match AFAIC.
I'll support your notion of a forward mounted (scout) scope.
I've got a couple of them. It's true , that they require some practice to become comfortable w/them. A "sharp learning curve" would be one way of putting it. Leaving all the "collectible" garbage aside, and it is garbage, there are good reasons for mounting a scope thusly.
1. The one handed side carry is not impeded, at all. I like that!
2. The only change to the balance is that it's moved forward a bit. This makes for a steadier off hand hold, for me.
On the negative side is how to implement the job. There's no use to discussing what they "used to make" or what they oughta do. We're stuck w/what is.
What I'm doing is this.
Get a scout kit for a M94 Win. Using a good steel middle sight, lop off the buck horns, leaving you with an extended mounting base, good for at least two threaded holes.
Locate the best hole spacing to mate the fabbed base with the aluminum kit base from XS and locate and D/T a new hole in forward receiver ring. Using fiberglass or epoxy mount new creation to rifle. 3 screws plus fiberglass should hold it.
I'll probly get a royal flaming and renamed Idiot ll but you gotta know IDGAD.
Don't be scairt! Go ferit.
Pepe Ray

[Old Savage]

Get another gun to shoot longer ranges.

[Idiot]

Start with the side mount that fits the screw hole pattern on your receiver.. see how that works & go from there...

Sound wisdom.

My advice would be to leave the Model 71 unchanged. The .348 WCF is not particularly flat shooting.
It is called hunting, not shooting. Get closer. If you absolutely have to shoot past 200 yards, get a scope-sighted, bolt-action rifle in a flat shooting caliber.

I'll take some hunting lessons and try my best to get closer, and even closer still. Oh, I should add that a 180 grain bullet launched at around 2,650 fps can maintain a pretty flat trajectory clear out to the other side of the canyon - right to the spot under that unapproachable ridge where that big buck thinks he's hiding. And with a good rest and sights, who knows, even an old slouch like me might have a chance at some fresh steaks for now and a good tale for later. Oh well.

I created my own mount design. It was custom made from a billet of steel and blued. I have been using this for about 25 years. Works great. Rock solid.

If I go this route, this is something to consider. I'd sure like to see a photo of your custom mounting system.

Well Idiot! Get a scout kit for a M94 Win. Using a good steel middle sight, lop off the buck horns, leaving you with an extended mounting base, good for at least two threaded holes. Locate the best hole spacing to mate the fabbed base with the aluminum kit base from XS and locate and D/T a new hole in forward receiver ring. Using fiberglass or epoxy mount new creation to rifle. 3 screws plus fiberglass should hold it. Don't be scairt! Go ferit.

Mr. Pepe Ray, I like the way you think. You give good reasons to go "scout," which BTW is the direction I'm leaning - at the moment.

Thanks guys for the advise so far. I hope to hear from more of you folks who are "in the know."

[RKrodle]

I like the Scout setup also, having used it on my guide gun and on 86er's 86.

As for as the 348 not being flat shooting:

6 inch Kill zone

348 200gr hornady FP at 2586, BC .246 ( my load )
Max Point Blank Range: 241 yards
Zero at 207 Yards
2.92" high at 100 yards

30-06 200 grain Partition at 2528, BC .481 (Nosler web site)
Max Point Blank Range: 253 yards
Zero at 215 yards
2.86" high at 100 yards

The 348 is very close to a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets and up.

[crs]

Sic 'em Rickey!

BTW - do you have a peep sight on that 71?

[RKrodle]

Sic 'em Rickey!

BTW - do you have a peep sight on that 71?

You betcha, I put a Williams on it.

[Malamute]

I'm in the "scope it" camp. Its already been drilled and tapped. One thing to consider when using a side mount scope, turn the scope a quarter turn sideways(counter clockwise), then the adjusting turrets wont interfere with your empties. This takes some brain power. Your elevation becomes your windage adjustment, and vice versa. Looking at it, it should become clear what you need to do to adjust it. I've heard of people not being able to figure it out, but it never gave me that problem.

The round definately justifies a scope.

[Tycer]

The side mount is a Weaver 3A
The holes are in two pairs. Each pair is .0965" Outside to outside NOT center to center.
The two outermost holes are 2.890" Outside to outside.
All four holes are ~.465" from the top of the receiver to the bottom of the holes.

I have no problem with side mount scopes. Set your crosshairs windage to be dead on at half your max hunting distance and you'll never be off center more than the distance of the center of your scope to the center of the bore. On a Win 94 that's ~.80", plenty good for hunting.

I tried to use some high-tech double sided tape from 3M on my 1886 EL, but accuracy sucked wind. I had zero ejection problems.

I still think I might D&T it. I hate to do it, but it's a tool that needs to fit the user. I'm not selling it ever, and if I kill the resale value, too bad. My kids shouldn't have tried to sell it anyway.

[Idiot]

Good stuff guys. Thanks a bunch.

[Sixgun]

Idiot,
I am 54, blind in my right eye and my "good" eye has 20-40 vision and is color blind. No bs. I use tang sights exclusively on a mess (and I mean a mess of 'em) of leverguns, with the exception being a half doz. long range boltguns that rarely come out of the safe.

No brag-just fact---I can hit and group just as well out to 250 meters with a tang sight as I can a 10X Leupold. I still have no problem nailing little things out to 500 meters with the proper single shots and a couple of select leverguns.

Read between the lines here---while I do have some boltguns that will group 3" @ 500 meters, we cannot compare these guns with the typical levergun or antique single shot. I'm talking "general hunting accuracy" here which is 1-3" @ 100m, 3-5"@200m, 3-7"@300m.

This all boils down to "knowing your rifle". With your Model 71, the EXTREME accuracy/killing range would be 250-300 meters---given no wind, solid rest, etc-----there is no need for a scope---you will loose some early morning/late evening/through-the-branches-shots, but IMHO, that beat the heck out of scoping a rifle that has no business of having a scope on it.

Put a quality receiver sight on her and PRACTICE-------------------------Sixgun

[Rusty]

Loom out Sixgun you might get flamed for using the "P" word.

[Sixgun]

Loom out Sixgun you might get flamed for using the "P" word.

I hear 'ya Rusty ----These young-uns want to be experts with a box or two of factory ammo.

[Idiot]

I like the Scout setup also, having used it on my guide gun and on 86er's 86.

I'd sure like to see that 86 set-up.

Idiot,
I am 54, blind in my right eye and my "good" eye has 20-40 vision and is color blind. No bs. I use tang sights exclusively on a mess (and I mean a mess of 'em) of leverguns, with the exception being a half doz. long range boltguns that rarely come out of the safe. No brag-just fact---I can hit and group just as well out to 250 meters with a tang sight as I can a 10X Leupold. Put a quality receiver sight on her and PRACTICE-------------------------Sixgun

Well I've thought about this before I decided to put on a scope. And I know I won't practice any more than I do now, but that won't stop me from hunting; especially if I can still hit well with a scope. You give good advise though - thanks.

[Idiot]

The side mount is a Weaver 3A
The holes are in two pairs. Each pair is .0965" Outside to outside NOT center to center.
The two outermost holes are 2.890" Outside to outside.
All four holes are ~.465" from the top of the receiver to the bottom of the holes.

I have no problem with side mount scopes. Set your crosshairs windage to be dead on at half your max hunting distance and you'll never be off center more than the distance of the center of your scope to the center of the bore. On a Win 94 that's ~.80", plenty good for hunting.

I tried to use some high-tech double sided tape from 3M on my 1886 EL, but accuracy sucked wind. I had zero ejection problems.

I still think I might D&T it. I hate to do it, but it's a tool that needs to fit the user. I'm not selling it ever, and if I kill the resale value, too bad. My kids shouldn't have tried to sell it anyway.

Thanks Tycer, this is practical stuff I can use.

[86er]

I put a one piece Weaver base on my 1886. It uses 4 4X48 screws. Made by Wild West Guns, I modified the contour to fit my barrel. Works like a charm and has held up to nearly 2000 full power rounds.

[Idiot]

Thanks 86er. That's simple, well executed, and effective. One cannot ask for more than that. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery - consider yourself complimented. Thanks.

[Old Savage]

With a scope - even if as Sixgun you can shoot as well with a tang you still certainly will not be able to see the target as well as with a scope - antlers or branches???

Just took my 10X binocs to look at leaves at 100 yds on a tree, with the glass they are individuals fluttering without a fluttering mass.

[Lastmohecken]

It's sure nice to carry an ironsighted Winchester while hunting, which I often do, but a scope is a definate advantage under all conditions, except close range, and or well defined targets, and game animals are quite often anything but well defined targets, under hunting conditions.

Since your model 71 has already been drilled, it has lost some of it's collector value, so from that standpoint it might be a candidate for a scout scope. But I would not consider putting extra holes in a clean Model 71, maybe a Browning 71, but for me at least, I would stay with a recevier sight, and get a BLR if I wanted a scoped leveraction, either that or a Marlin.

[Idiot]

But I would not consider putting extra holes in a clean Model 71, maybe a Browning 71, but for me at least, I would stay with a recevier sight, and get a BLR if I wanted a scoped leveraction, either that or a Marlin.

Wait a minute! Browning chambers a BLR in .348 Winchester!?

[Malamute]

It has been mentioned a couple times about carrying a scoped gun. One thing I've noticed about the side mounts, if you carry it in your right hand, you can still get your hand most of the way around the receiver, thumb on top. It carries nicer than a scoped Marlin in that regard, or a bolt gun.


Forward mounted scopes have also been mentioned, but yours isnt D&T'ed for a so called scout scope, its set up for a side mount. I personally see little reason for more holes, and little reason not to use the side mount. I like them, and find them to be fairly easy to get used to.


I admire the abilty to shoot well with iron sights, and do some iron sight shooting, out to 600 yards and further, but no matter what you can do on paper, the abilty to gather more light makes a big difference, particulalry on a grey deer on a grey background, in poor light. I know that at times I cant even make out a target clearly, but looking at it thru a scope, I know I can hit it.

[Old Savage]

Browning chambers the 358 but I don't think they have a 348.