...never did trust electronic safe locks...!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:26 am

Can't get mine to work today.

New battery no help.

Not real happy, since Christmas is usually when we do some family shootin' (...I laugh when I think how strange that must sound to city-folk...

).

Marlin32 · Post by **Marlin32** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:01 am

Been there done that. Had to call a safe smith to unlock it, and he put a new electronic lock, but a better quality one on.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:05 am

Get out the angle grinder, you will be in in no time. Good Luck and Merry Christmas.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:20 am

Mine won`t reset half the time, have to bang on it and shake the handle then beep and it works.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:28 am

Get some C-4.....that will work.....just be sure you don't do it like the Polish bank robber who tied up the safe and blew the guard.----6

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:01 pm

Take battery out, wait a few minutes reinstall battery and try it? Might need to reset itself?

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:08 pm

I guess I'm too "old school" and have lived in a mechanical world and don't believe I'll ever get out of it. I never did trust electronics of any kind, unless of course I'm forced to. If I have a choice, I always go for the mechanical variation. Even when I bought my last new Jeep, I was adamant to the salesman about roll up windows vs. the motorized ones. Did not even want air conditioning but I had no choice on that.

I like things that when they break, I don't have to call anyone. Still use Maytag wringer washers.----6

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:10 pm

My jeep also has rollups. No electronics here, Sargent & Geenleaf for me. The beads are from a couple of dancers in Las Vegas, all 37 strings.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:31 pm

Dang! That Old Savage guy gets ALL of the neat stuff! Look at those beads.....and how they once hung around the "soft stuff".

---6

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:48 pm

Sixgun wrote:Dang! That Old Savage guy gets ALL of the neat stuff! Look at those beads.....and how they once hung around the "soft stuff". ---6

I'm sure his memory is failing... those look like Mardi-Gras beads... from New Orleans.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:58 pm

That really bites. Good thing there's no emergencies. But, I guess you have Donner und Blitzen out, and ready to go if need be.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:02 pm

This Spring I had the same issue with my ten year old Champion safe. Would not open, even after installing 2 new batteries. Combination was changed once that day safe was installed to a combination I selected.

Called the dealer who advised me to call Champion Safe. After jumping through a few hoops, Champion sent out a loaner key pad. Still did not open.

Dealer representative came out and unsuccessfully tried several Champion provided "master codes" as well as new batteries. He called Champion and again unsuccessfully tried another master code. Dealer rep drilled out the safe door to remove the computer chip, open it up, and install a time-tested S & G dial lock.

Old lock sent back to Champion to test it. Champion found a problem in the computer chip as there was power from the battery/key pad to the computer chip. For someone reason, the computer chip would not accept the combination or the master codes. Learned the difficult way that electronic safe door looks are unreliable and like a home computer, they will fail. All that for a mere US$475.00, tax included.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:07 pm

Six, the devil in disguise no doubt.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:10 pm

I'm feeling better about my cheap-o StackOn and Homak already.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:40 pm

My ammo/ pistol safe was made by Wilf Charles, a blacksmith who did a lot of work for the SAS, the lock failed a few days ago, I couldn't believe it, but a good spray of lubricant got it working like new, I would never trust anything electronic on something so important.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:42 pm

My gunsafe is 34 years old... the S&G manual lock has not failed once... 'Nuff said.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:52 pm

electronic locks? I could never understand putting a lock onto a "safe" that anyone could walk away with.

I like the kind you twirl around. Can you imagine Wyat Earp fiddling with a touchpad?

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:29 pm

I have a friend that services safes. For every mechanical lock that he has to fix, he fixes about 10 electronic.

Cat

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:33 pm

Will never own an electronic gun/safe lock.

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:01 pm

I bought a safe with a manual lock after reading these:

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/12 ... e.html?m=1

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2009/01 ... s.html?m=1

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2009/01 ... y.html?m=1

Hope you get yours open easier than this!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:37 pm

I did engineer a figurative back-door, so I can get in, but will definitely be replacing the lock.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:40 pm

Griff wrote:My gunsafe is 34 years old... the S&G manual lock has not failed once... 'Nuff said.

That's about how old mine is..closer to 30......open it almost daily...still works.......

OLD SAVAGE......mmmmmm......the good stuff.....nice and soft...very playful

---6

hayabusa · Post by **hayabusa** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:05 am

My safe is also 30ish years old. It gets opened at least once a day. It is a S&G manual lock and has never given any trouble. I changed the combination when we set it in the house. The Company which sold me the safe at a gun show did not want me to set the combination as so many people seem to screw it up and they have to send a repairman out on site and charge $ and it upsets the new buyer.
I do not plan on ever owning an electronic lock safe.

busa

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:38 am

AJMD429 wrote: Not real happy, since Christmas is usually when we do some family shootin' (...I laugh when I think how strange that must sound to city-folk... ).

I get ticked enough at some family members the rest of the year, so can't wait until Christmas to do some "family shootin" Some of them need taken care of right away!

But I wont have an electronic lock on a gun safe either. Too many horror stories for me to want the hassle. Dials are pretty low tech, and I like that.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:15 am

Sorry for your luck but thank you for reinforcing my thought on why I stuck with the old fashioned dial.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:29 am

Didn`t you guys with electronics safes come with keys to open them, mine did it`s a Stack on.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:37 pm

Pitchy wrote:Didn`t you guys with electronics safes come with keys to open them, mine did it`s a Stack on.

That's the answer - if you have to go digital, does it have a key bypass?

A digital lock is sort of okay if it comes with a key bypass. But those 4 digit digital ones, unless they have a timeout feature after a few tries, can be defeated in time just by starting with 0000, 0001... Just punching in 20 4-digit combinations a minute - pretty slow - means you will reach 9999 in about 8 hours 20 minutes. Leaving a normal, curious kid at home with one of these guarding your guns is not such a good idea; an hour a day for less than a week gives you all the combinations. And of course if your combination is 5555, that's about 4 hrs 10 minutes tops.

Besides a mechanical (dial) lock safe for most stuff, I use a smaller quick entry handgun safe with an electronic digital lock. But it has a strangely configured bypass key, not a standard pin tumbler type that can quickly be picked. And I have an electronic handgun box for transporting purposes, quick to open. But again, it features a key lock as well.

I question the wisdom altogether of purchasing a fireproof safe with an electronic lock, which would be the first to melt and be rendered useless.

The digital buttons that work in combination without the keypad 0 through 9 are easy to defeat. I picked up a Radio Shack infrared home alarm system out of the red tag bin - for a ridiculously low price - many years ago because the store owner lost the simple 4 digit combination for the control box. It featured 4 buttons to be pressed in combination, so there were only 256 possible combinations to disarm it; Like Button 3, Button 4, Button 4, Button 2. I took my prize home and "cracked" it in a short time while watching a TV program. It was good enough as an internal disarming device.

I used it for a year or two. Then, we went on vacation and dear ol' Dad came into the house to get something, but didn't have the combination. The loud external horn went off while he was fiddling with the control box and its back up gel cell battery. So he ripped the box from the wall and stomped the poor thing to death.

Rest In Peace, Home Alert Alarm System. Hello, ADT.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:10 pm

JohndeFresno wrote:...the loud external horn went off while he was fiddling with the control box and its back up gel cell battery. So he ripped the box from the wall and stomped the poor thing to death.

Rest In Peace, Home Alert Alarm System.

Now THAT would have been fun to watch....

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:14 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
JohndeFresno wrote:...the loud external horn went off while he was fiddling with the control box and its back up gel cell battery. So he ripped the box from the wall and stomped the poor thing to death.

Rest In Peace, Home Alert Alarm System.
Now THAT would have been fun to watch....

that was truly funny

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:28 am

I don't like them either.....I'll stick with the old fashion combo locks

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:03 am

Sixgun wrote:I guess I'm too "old school" and have lived in a mechanical world and don't believe I'll ever get out of it. I never did trust electronics of any kind, unless of course I'm forced to. If I have a choice, I always go for the mechanical variation. Even when I bought my last new Jeep, I was adamant to the salesman about roll up windows vs. the motorized ones. Did not even want air conditioning but I had no choice on that.

I like things that when they break, I don't have to call anyone. Still use Maytag wringer washers.----6

yea well I had the tumblers slip in mine, $350 to get it opened, now I have a electric lock on it. So you can get 'got' either way.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:50 pm

buckeyeshooter wrote: yea well I had the tumblers slip in mine, $350 to get it opened, now I have a electric lock on it. So you can get 'got' either way.

I have read that this can happen if you slam the door shut on some safes. Is that what happened??

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:06 pm

Sixgun wrote:I guess I'm too "old school" and have lived in a mechanical world and don't believe I'll ever get out of it. I never did trust electronics of any kind, unless of course I'm forced to. If I have a choice, I always go for the mechanical variation. Even when I bought my last new Jeep, I was adamant to the salesman about roll up windows vs. the motorized ones. Did not even want air conditioning but I had no choice on that.

I like things that when they break, I don't have to call anyone. Still use Maytag wringer washers.----6

Agree with you about Mechanical/Electrical mechanical over electronics. Am amazed that you get your lady to use a wringer washer. A tip of the hat

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:11 pm

tman wrote:
Sixgun wrote:I guess I'm too "old school" and have lived in a mechanical world and don't believe I'll ever get out of it. I never did trust electronics of any kind, unless of course I'm forced to. If I have a choice, I always go for the mechanical variation. Even when I bought my last new Jeep, I was adamant to the salesman about roll up windows vs. the motorized ones. Did not even want air conditioning but I had no choice on that.

I like things that when they break, I don't have to call anyone. Still use Maytag wringer washers.----6
Agree with you about Mechanical/Electrical mechanical over electronics. Am amazed that you get your lady to use a wringer washer. A tip of the hat

He don't... notice he used the "1st person" in that sentence...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:13 pm

JohndeFresno wrote:
buckeyeshooter wrote:yea well I had the tumblers slip in mine, $350 to get it opened, now I have a electric lock on it. So you can get 'got' either way.
I have read that this can happen if you slam the door shut on some safes. Is that what happened??

Can't happen on mine... nearly air-tight, air compression slows it down so it just barely closes, still have to push it the last bit to engage the lugs!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:21 pm

I'm at an age where I just don't give a flying pelosi what others think. Been there and done that.....automatic washers last 4 years..tops..aggravation inbetween those 4 years. After dealing with aggravation from 1972, I decided to take contol from the capitalists and live life "my style".

If your smart, you can do 2-400% more clothes in a wringer than you can in an automatic in the same amount of time. Wash the whites....then use the same water for the darks. Horse blankets, quilts, bedspreads????....no problem. The only "problem" is that you have to stay there...no walking away and talking on the phone.

These thing don't break down.......maybe a belt every twenty years. Plus, you have to put the clothes through twice in order to use the dryer.

I call my style of living ...free.....no credit cards, vehicles I can work on...horses for transportation if need be..lots of dogs to replace electronic security......solar lights and and other things for security issues...

plenty of guns and ammo if someone approaches within 100 meters.

I may be the definition of a nut but myself and my neighbors feel the same...you loot-I shoot

----6

It's real...I don't steal pictures off of the internet....yep...loaded for bear...all of them.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:07 pm

And I asked if you had a BAR and no reply.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:39 pm

Pitchy wrote:And I asked if you had a BAR and no reply.

Sorry Pitch....didn't see it....

It's nothing special...semi automatic...but dang!!!! This baby shoots! It's almost a little scarey, pumping out '06's as fast as I can pull the trigger....and little recoil.

There's a reason for my signature line.....I've got a few AR-'s and those babies shoot as does the M1A.......but there ain't nothin like the BAR....unless, if course, you have a Ma Deuce floatin' around.

After ripping off a couple of XX mags, you feel......so realaxed!----6

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:32 pm

Slipping Tumblers. When I had the dial lock installed on my safe I asked the repair tech about any maintenance on the dial lock.

The tech said that dial combination locks are just about maintenance free, but-- and there always is a 'but'- you get what you pay for. He then said if the number sequence is too close together that can/will cause unusual tumbler wear and lead to locking/unlocking problems.

According to the tech, unusual tumbler wear could/can also occur if quickly spinning the dial several times before applying the combination sequence to unlock. Supposedly people do this to "align everything up." He said doing the same after locking the safe dial can/will cause excessive tumbler wear.

There just might be something to what he said. A friend had his safe dial lock replaced because he said the tumblers were worn. He told me that two numbers were very close and the locksmith told him that was the problem. Now I do not recall the age of his safe and/or if the dial lock was "quality".

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:44 pm

Ray,
Maybe so..but I've never experienced it. I've had my first safe since ...just guessing...mid eighties and the second one came 20 years later.......both S & G......and I spin those babies near everyday.....

Maybe what I do has something to do with it......I spray into the dial with R.E.M.---Oil every couple of months......you know...spray like I don't have to pay for it...in fact, I don't.....my buddy owns a large gunshop and is Remington themed.....anyway, forget that bs....its cheap anyway......

Life is short...Let your heirs worry about the small stuff .----6

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:46 am

Sixgun wrote:
Pitchy wrote:And I asked if you had a BAR and no reply.

Sorry Pitch....didn't see it....

It's nothing special...semi automatic...but dang!!!! This baby shoots! It's almost a little scarey, pumping out '06's as fast as I can pull the trigger....and little recoil.

There's a reason for my signature line.....I've got a few AR-'s and those babies shoot as does the M1A.......but there ain't nothin like the BAR....unless, if course, you have a Ma Deuce floatin' around.

After ripping off a couple of XX mags, you feel......so realaxed!----6

Thanks I asked about it another thread, I remember when ya could buy one in Gun list or something about 20 years ago or so for 1,500 bucks sure wish I`d would of bought one.
Is there a outlet for them now and how much?

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:59 pm

Pitch,
Ohio ordnance Works makes them. GI parts except the receiver and the barrel. A bit over 4---6

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:19 am

I prefer CV38 over C4 or Semtex to get safes open. It is not as loud and works more like a super powerful cutting torch. Det cord will really mess it up. It is all about the brisance.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:00 am

Ray Newman wrote: (EXCERPTED, annotated - JdeF)
1) ...if the number sequence is too close together that can/will cause unusual tumbler wear and lead to locking/unlocking problems.

2) ...unusual tumbler wear could/can also occur if quickly spinning the dial several times before applying the combination sequence to unlock.

3) ...doing the same after locking the safe dial can/will cause excessive tumbler wear.

Great tips, Ray!
I new about #1; worthy to remember for those who reset a combination to their own preference. Some safe manuals warn about this.

I didn't know about #2 and #3 and have been quickly spinning the dials each time for years. The above information makes sense, so I'll stop that practice.

Thank you for the tips!

veeman · Post by **veeman** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:07 pm

Pitchy wrote:Didn`t you guys with electronics safes come with keys to open them, mine did it`s a Stack on.

My Stack-on pistol safe failed yesterday, top 2 rows of keypad don't work. 3 new batteries, still no luck. Half hour search for manual revealed there are in fact keys for backup. Another half hour search for keys and safe is open. I don't think I'll bother getting the keypad fixed, just keep track of the keys, perhaps keep them in one of the other electronic safes.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:35 pm

.

FWIW:

If you are replacing a gun safe mechanical dial combination lock, the UL 768 Group II S&G 6730 is the industry standard and the minimum performance level you should consider.

There are only 2 worthwhile gun safe mechanical locks, and many knock-off's: S&G and LaGard.

The equivalent La Gard 3330 mechanical dial lock would also be a good choice.

The 3330 is still all-brass internally, while S&G has started using plastic parts inside their mechanical dial locks.

Since, of course, I never read the owner's manual when I bought my Champion safe about 15 years ago, I rapidly spun the dial both to first clear the lock prior to dialing in the combination, and after closing the safe.

Last week, I couldn't get the safe open until after about 20 try's, and the combination dial felt very very "loose".

Once I got it opened, I had a locksmith come to the house, thinking the lock needed replacement.

Wrong.

The locksmith said that most just needed adjustment - which he proceeded to perform, then he manually reset the combination using the same combination the safe already had.

After that ( & $75 later), the combination dial felt remarkably tighter, and was E-Z-Peazy to open.

BTW - when I told him that I had occasionally lubricated the lock with a clockworks lube, he told me that I was fortunate that the lube didn't reach the tumblers, or I would have needed to have the lock drilled out from the front of the in-opened door & replaced.

I tossed the lube.............................

,

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:09 pm

Found this interesting Troubleshooting Guide for the 'mechanical' type locks:

http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/ ... _locks.pdf

Bad News = there obviously are things that go wrong with them, or there wouldn't be such a guide

However - the 'Troubleshooting Guide for Electronic Locks" is probably shorter:

Page One - Title Page
Page Two - List of various Electronic Lock Models
Page Three - List of methods to Fix Electronic Locks
- a) Drills
  b) Saws
  c) Explosives