Metering the "dots"

[earlmck]

The "dots" -- Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot, Unique -- have a lot of fans here, with me among them. But these powders have never metered real close for me (nothing like those ball powders) and I am not going to weigh these things for making bunches of plinking loads. So while +/- 2 or 3 tenths of a grain isn't a big deal when throwing 10 grains of Green Dot for one of my usual cast bullet loads, when you get down to 3 grains of Red Dot for the favorite light 32/20 load that +/- 2 tenths looks much larger on a percentage basis. Also my usual powder measure is the Redding BR30 which throws about 5 grains of Red or Green Dot as a smallest charge.

Fortunately I found a nifty little Herter's pistol powder measure a couple of years ago in a pawn shop in Burns and have been using it for the small charges. Unfortunately the little 1/4" charging cylinder can fail to fill completely with these flake powders and so every now and then you get a real reduced charge. So to overcome the occasional extra light charge I have got in the habit of giving some extra taps when doing the "fill" part of the throw, so instead of "clunk" I give it a "clunk, tap, tap" to fill. And I noticed the Red Dot seemed to be throwing a more consistent charge with this method, in addition to eliminating the "partial fill" problem.

Today I thought I'd do some research and just see if this "clunk, tap, tap" method really does do a better job. So here's what I got, using both Herter's measure and Redding measure with Red, Green, Blue Dots and Unique.

HertersMeasure.jpg

ReddingMeasure.jpg

If you mouse click these they'll show big enough to read. And you can no doubt figure that RDC means "Red Dot Clunk" while GDCtt means "Green Dot Clunk, tap, tap". And so on. At the bottom are the calculations for average charge, Standard Deviation, and Extreme Spread.

As you can see, I really helped myself using the "Ctt" technique with the Red Dot and the Herter's measure, going from "real poor" to "very very close". Also helped greatly with the Unique and some with the Blue Dot. Green Dot I might not bother doing except that I know that once in a great while this could give me a "partial-fill", even though I didn't get one for the mere ten throws used in this test.

And with Red Dot it is still worth doing the "Ctt" thing with the Redding even though a "partial-fill" has never been a problem with the 1/2" cylinder of the Redding. Green Dot, Blue Dot, and Unique don't gain much from the "Ctt" with the Redding measure.

[AJMD429]

Another option for those who are thinking of getting another measure - I finally splurged and got a Harrell's measure, and it is AWESOME.

[Griff]

I found many years ago that even with my RCBS measure, that extra tap or two at both ends of stroke gives a much more accurate and consistent charge. Even using powders like 4320, 4350, RL7, etc. I generally load all my pistol cartridges on a Dillon 550B... doesn't have that ability... but, I've found that keeping the hopper over ½ full helps with keeping the drops consistent. Even with the inverted "V" baffle in pace. And I've probably loaded more RedDot than any other powder on the Dillon... unless it's BP!

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have an RCBS and two Saeco/Redding measures. They all will stay within .1-.2 gr with any of the Dot powders and that is close enough for me. Now if I were loading for rifle precision, I would want to get a little closer and probably drop into a scale pan and dribble up to the line.
For handgun loads I cant tell the difference in a .2gr. spread.

[retmech]

I load my small batches of cartridges on a Lyman SparT turret and have my Redding powder measure mounted on the turret between the expander die and seater die. I load each shell individually to completion by turning the turret. The vibration gives me very uniform powder charges with the "Dots".

[AJMD429]

I load my small batches of cartridges on a Lyman SparT turret and have my Redding powder measure mounted on the turret between the expander die and seater die. I load each shell individually to completion by turning the turret. The vibration gives me very uniform powder charges with the "Dots".

I think that may be an advantage of the turret-mounted measures, regardless of make; a fairly consistent 'knock' each time the turret moves.

[J35]

Another option for those who are thinking of getting another measure - I finally splurged and got a Harrell's measure, and it is AWESOME.

Hi Doc

Sometime when your bored and nothing better to do try to set your little Harrel to throw 1.8 gr of Red Dot. I can get no consistency out of mine below two and a half grains .

------J

[J35]

I have an RCBS and two Saeco/Redding measures. They all will stay within .1-.2 gr with any of the Dot powders and that is close enough for me. Now if I were loading for rifle precision, I would want to get a little closer and probably drop into a scale pan and dribble up to the line.
For handgun loads I cant tell the difference in a .2gr. spread.

HI

I would agree for the most part

Except the 32 long with wad-cutter's and 22 Hornet with 55-60gr cast bullets. A .2 gr spread is pretty easy to see and feel.

-------J

[J35]

The "dots" -- Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot, Unique -- have a lot of fans here, with me among them. But these powders have never metered real close for me (nothing like those ball powders) and I am not going to weigh these things for making bunches of plinking loads. So while +/- 2 or 3 tenths of a grain isn't a big deal when throwing 10 grains of Green Dot for one of my usual cast bullet loads, when you get down to 3 grains of Red Dot for the favorite light 32/20 load that +/- 2 tenths looks much larger on a percentage basis. Also my usual powder measure is the Redding BR30 which throws about 5 grains of Red or Green Dot as a smallest charge.

Fortunately I found a nifty little Herter's pistol powder measure a couple of years ago in a pawn shop in Burns and have been using it for the small charges. Unfortunately the little 1/4" charging cylinder can fail to fill completely with these flake powders and so every now and then you get a real reduced charge. So to overcome the occasional extra light charge I have got in the habit of giving some extra taps when doing the "fill" part of the throw, so instead of "clunk" I give it a "clunk, tap, tap" to fill. And I noticed the Red Dot seemed to be throwing a more consistent charge with this method, in addition to eliminating the "partial fill" problem.

Today I thought I'd do some research and just see if this "clunk, tap, tap" method really does do a better job. So here's what I got, using both Herter's measure and Redding measure with Red, Green, Blue Dots and Unique.

HertersMeasure.jpg

ReddingMeasure.jpg

If you mouse click these they'll show big enough to read. And you can no doubt figure that RDC means "Red Dot Clunk" while GDCtt means "Green Dot Clunk, tap, tap". And so on. At the bottom are the calculations for average charge, Standard Deviation, and Extreme Spread.

As you can see, I really helped myself using the "Ctt" technique with the Red Dot and the Herter's measure, going from "real poor" to "very very close". Also helped greatly with the Unique and some with the Blue Dot. Green Dot I might not bother doing except that I know that once in a great while this could give me a "partial-fill", even though I didn't get one for the mere ten throws used in this test.

And with Red Dot it is still worth doing the "Ctt" thing with the Redding even though a "partial-fill" has never been a problem with the 1/2" cylinder of the Redding. Green Dot, Blue Dot, and Unique don't gain much from the "Ctt" with the Redding measure.

I have always done the clunk tap with drum type measures since the early 70's.

The Red Dot I have now was a gift, and unless someone wants to give me some more when it's gone, that will be it for me. I have sure wasted a lot of time fussing with powder measures and Red Dot. 231 and Bullseye are more user friendly for me.

Sure enjoy your posts---------J

[ollogger]

The Lee dippers work well for me on loads as low as 4.7 gr. of unique or any weight up to 30 some grains if you can get the right combo, if not I use a tap & klunk method also




ollogger

[M. M. Wright]

earlmck,
I too have an old Herters powder measure. I use a dia. .312 charge tube that I made with a threaded adjustment and lock nut. I tilt the tube back into the load position and give the base of the measure a couple of taps with a 3/4" wooden dowel, then tilt it forward to the drop position and give it four or five taps to empty it. No matter what powder. Consistent force and taps produces best results. I still use and old beam scale since my electronic one disappeared.
The Herters or any similar measure can be disassembled and cleaned then lubed with super fine graphite. For several months the old Herters is very smooth after the new graphite.

[Nath]

Good research. Duely noted!
Thanks Earl.

N.