Ruger New Vaquero or Italian SAA?

zack coyote · Post by **zack coyote** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:56 pm

I've decided I want a new SAA in .45 Colt, and can't decide. I have three Rossi's in that caliber in the three barrel lengths, plus an American Western Arms Peacekeeper. The Rossi's have been slicked up by me and Steve Young, and the AWA is smooth as silk from the get-go. Although I have other lever guns from .22 up to 45-70, I think the .45 colt will be my favorite from hear on in. I just want something new. I'm sure the Ruger will do everything I want, and last a lifetime, but it feels a little large in my hands. The Italian SAA's feel more like a Colt, but aren't as tough as a Ruger.The AWA will be put away, and I want a good go-to gun for woods bummin', camping, and traveling. Will I get used to the larger Vaquero? Help me decide. We're talking $100 more for the Vaquero, and for an old man that's a chunk of change.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:31 pm

I''ve a .44 mag Vaquero and it is larger than the usual run-of-the-mill single actions. For me, being of the knuckle dragger persuasion, it doesn't matter. Your mileage may vary though.

Now the ones I have are the "old style" Vaqueros. The new ones are noticeably smaller so you need to check if it's the new or old style.

Rugers are built like tanks though. I'd trust the action in one to hang together a lot longer than anything else.

I do understand about the $100 though.

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:30 pm

The Ruger Vaquero ad the Ruger New Vaquero are quite different guns.
The New Vaquero is, as far as I know, the same size as the Colt Peacemaker and subject to the same maximum loads.

My 4-5/8" 45 Colt New Vaquero is one of my favorite "walkin' about" and BBQ guns.
It rides well in the Mernickle P5sa holster:

Image from the Mernickle website

I load the 45 Colt cartridge for the New Vaquero with 250-260 gr SWC lead bullets and usually with near maximum loads per the manual. It shoots better than I can hold most times.
I choose to not use "Ruger Only" loads in any of my 45 Colt handguns. If I need higher velocities and heavier bullets, I will use the .44 Magnum.

Jack

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:13 pm

Here's the way I always look at things: Ruger = Made in the USA; Made in the USA = jobs kept here and not overseas.

Friends and Fellow Shooters tell me I am crazy, but country of origin is very important and more often than not if it aint made in the USA, I will pass it up.

And as another posted noted, the New Model Vaquero is vey close to the Colt. I have a . 45 Colt SAA and New Model Vaquero .45 Colt. Both are very similar is handling characteristics, weight/size. Neither will safely handle "Ruger only loads." Just wished I had better eyes to see the "primitive" sights. Also have an original Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt, it is larger and heavier than Colt SAA or the New Model Vaquero.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:25 pm

Just my useless .02

I'm going to look at this another way.

You can buy the real deal, a 3rd generation Colt, that will keep its value and probably increase even if it's been used or buy one of the two your are looking at new that will drop in value by 50% from day 1.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =434568524

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =434564287

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:15 pm

Zack, for what you said you want I'd go with the Ruger New Model Vaquero in SS. I've got/had both and the Ruger's are built like tanks and not so prone to parts breakage as the Colt's or Colt clones.

I do love my new Uberti 1872 open-tops in .44 special, but if I ever get a chance to buy a pair of the Lipsey's special run .44 specials I'd sell 'em in a heart beat if I had to get the Ruger's.

Rob

jkbrea · Post by **jkbrea** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:51 am

zack coyote wrote:I've decided I want a new SAA in .45 Colt, and can't decide. I have three Rossi's in that caliber in the three barrel lengths, plus an American Western Arms Peacekeeper. The Rossi's have been slicked up by me and Steve Young, and the AWA is smooth as silk from the get-go. Although I have other lever guns from .22 up to 45-70, I think the .45 colt will be my favorite from hear on in. I just want something new. I'm sure the Ruger will do everything I want, and last a lifetime, but it feels a little large in my hands. The Italian SAA's feel more like a Colt, but aren't as tough as a Ruger.The AWA will be put away, and I want a good go-to gun for woods bummin', camping, and traveling. Will I get used to the larger Vaquero? Help me decide. We're talking $100 more for the Vaquero, and for an old man that's a chunk of change.

I'm in the same boat. I've been trying to decide the same thing. I've narrowed it to a Ruger New Vaquero or Taylor and Co Smoke Wagon Deluxe. I like authenticity of the Taylor but.........maybe a Colt

Sorry, not much help.

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:13 am

I have a couple of the Italian guns that are very good, and priced a little easier on my wallet, but I also have a older vaquero that is my go to gun, it's been my woods and carry gun for a long time. The new Vaquero's are noticeably smaller, I guess I'd give them a look unless money is really tight. Either way you should enjoy them no matter which.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:23 am

I shoot Colts but have had Rugers, (old models, too big) AWAs, (great guns, very Colt like) but the one I would choose for you would be the New Vaquero. Get the 4 5/8" bbl.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:43 am

I so very much want an SAA.

SAA means SINGLE ACTION ARMY. That means: COLT.

All the others are just single action copies. I've never had a genuine Colt. Maybe someday. But I have had both old and new model Ruger single actions and Italian copies.

If you want a gun that is close to the real SAA Colt, then the Italian copy is in order. If you just want a Ruger then the New Vaquero will do.

I've never been able to accept the Ruger New Model action. It's just wrong to my way of thinking.
It doesn't make any difference that it's made in the USA or not, the action is just wrong.

I currently have 3 old model Ruger single actions, a .45 Colt, .357 mag and a .22. And I have my 1973 vintage Iver Johnson's imported Uberti Cattleman.
I don't complain about my vision, that's just life happening. When I can, I shoot 'em. Not had a spring break on the Cattleman yet. I don't even worry about it. If / when it happens, I'll just replace the spring and keep on going.

Were I in your shoes .... well, I'd probably by the Italian SA.

JMNSHO; cos I been shooting single actions since 19and73 when I turned 21 and could buy my first pistola.

Joe

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:49 am

Simply put.......

Forget the "instant gratification", save your money and hold out for a Colt.

If you really need to buy soon, get the Ruger.........follow Ray's advice and buy American-----6

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:11 pm

had an Uberti in .357. Terrible accuracy. Don't know about the Italian .45s, but the .357 I didn't like.

If you want a real shooter, I'd say get the Vaquero. It will be better tolerances and better accuracy. The Uberti's are faithful replications, flaws and all. Piettas are a little lighter and have a coil spring instead of leaf spring that makes them smoother to shoot.

I'ver heard other people occasionally complain about the Italians. Never heard any complaints about the Ruger.

model55 · Post by **model55** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:43 pm

Berretta stampedes come with the cheapest grips known to man,had one out of time from the factory hence finding out about the grips because their service rep over tighten and broke the grips on that one.Ruger all the way.Colt would be nice but deep pockets.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:50 pm

.

My vote's for a .45 Ruger New Vaquero over an import of any quality, for the simple reason that, IF the NV should ever fail, Ruger will stand behind it for the bubble - also important for an older person, unless one's skilled enough to do their own repairs (not that a Ruger will need any).

.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:42 pm

Sixgun wrote:Simply put.......

Forget the "instant gratification", save your money and hold out for a Colt.

If you really need to buy soon, get the Ruger.........follow Ray's advice and buy American-----6

I agree. and there's not as big a price difference as you might imagine.
I had a New Vaquero in .45 Colt for years. Never thought I could afford a Colt, but finally found one I couldn't resist.
Took the Colt out and shot it with the same loads I had been using in my New Vaquero....not only was it much smoother to fire, the groups tightened up considerably. Next gun show, Ruger was gone and I've not regretted it. At one time I owned 4 Colts, but now I'm down to the .45 and a .44 Special.

I did buy a Cimarron (Uberti) in .32 WCF due to price and availablity. Big difference in cost on those and Colts.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:53 pm

Wow, someone said Ruger and repair in the same sentence? (laughing)

Actually, along the way I have had an issue here and there with Rugers and they've always been taken care of to my satisfaction.

But original reason for posting. Ruger does have a different loading system than the original single actions. With the Ruger just flip open the loading gate.

Power Custom makes a drop in hammer/trigger kit that converts your Ruger to a half cock loading system, along with a dramatically better trigger pull.

Plus you gain a click or two on cocking.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:44 pm

I own six pairs of Ruger Vaqueros, One pair (.44 mag.) are old style and the rest are New Vaqueros.

The New Vaqueros come in .45 ACP in some models . The ACP runs at 21K max. and .45 Colt standard (Colt safe ) loads are 14K level loads. The Rugers are about the same size as the Colts and clones but, arguably, much stronger.
I own OM`s and NM`s in Ruger six guns and will disagree with Joe about liking them. I like em all!

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:36 pm

I own several Rugers, and I have traded off several Rugers, and I have had a couple of Colts, and a few Italian replicas and it's been my experience that you pays your moneys, and you takes your chances.

I have had lemons in them all, and also wonderful examples of each.

The nickle plated Colt .357 4.75" in one of the pictures worked great, but shot high with every load I could come up with from light and fast to heavy and slow. I traded it off at the Tulsa Gunshow along with a little boot for the Second Gen blued Colt shown with the deer, and that one was tuned by someone who knew what they were doing, the action is butter smooth, and it shoots to point of aim for as far as I can see to aim it accurately. That one is not going anywhere, unless someone steals it from me.

All of the Rugers in the pictures are fine shooting guns, but I have had several lemons in Rugers, long guns and short guns. Their quality control is spotty. Get a good one and it's golden, but they all are not golden by far. I have had my share of issues with Rugers, but the ones now own are probably going to remain keepers for me. One thing I do hate about the current crop of Rugers is those sorry, crappy, rubber grips which feel like stuff and also tear my hand up on any hard kicking big bore. As you can see my Rugers have been re-gripped with Sandbar Stag or elk grips for for the most part.

There is an old ARMI-SanMarcos 45 with one piece grips shown in the wagon wheel shaped picture at about 10 O'clock; That gun would not lock up solid on a couple of cylinders when I got it, but after careful examination, I determined it was the bolt that was not shaped right or had a bur on it, and cleaned it up with a file and stone and it has worked flawlessly ever since. It shoots very close to point of aim, and I have carried it quite a bit. It has a great feel, however, not quite as good as the second gen Colt, but then nothing I have ever picked up feels as good as that second gen Colt.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:27 pm

Another Look; Three different guns, and it's hard to figure sometimes but these are some of my favorite singleactions but they all have very different feels to them. Just something to think about when trying to decide on what to buy. About all I can say is it's best to try to handle as many as you can, and just see what you like the best.

The one on the top is the Colt Second Generation and it feels like no other single action I own. For one thing it's .357 cal so it's probably a more solid feeling gun, a little heavier maybe, but not really, just a different balance and the butter smooth action and Colt grips just give it a feel that is totally different, but I love it.

The middle one is a .45 colt New Vaquero, 5.5 inch barrel with pretty full Sandbar Stag grips that don't have a lot of bark on them. Pretty smooth action for a Ruger and it also has a pretty good feel to it, but again different.

One on the bottom is a .45 Colt New Vaquero 4.625 barrel length with a fairly small set of Elk Grips with good heavy bark on them. Different feel again, but very nice, and I like this gun for a carry gun.

Pick up a nice Italian replica with a good one-piece walnut or hardwood grip, and you will again be holding a gun with a very different feel to it then any of the one's above.

I have heard others say that the Uberti's will experience more frequent parts breakage then a Ruger, and I would probably not want to argue that, as it's probably true, but they do make some very nice looking and handling guns, for less then half the cost of a Third Gen Colt.

The Ruger probably has the longest shooting life.

Whatever gun you get, be prepared to either live with it, take it to a good gunsmith or trade it off if it doesn't shoot to point of aim, or get another one. sights can be filed, and barrels can be turned for windage, or just get an adjustable sighted Ruger and assuming it's a good one to start with, sight it in with your favorite load, buy a nice set of custom grips for it and you are good to go.

Good Luck with your choice or choices.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:26 am

Heritage Arms sells a Pietta that has a transfer bar but otherwise a Colt clone in size. Called the Rough Rider Big Bore. Mine is tighter than my Colt'ss.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:38 am

My perspective on the various SAA's is from a gunsmiths view. Not what they cost or how well they retain their value. Purely from the mechanical perspective.

If you want tuff out of the box, Ruger is the way to go, but I don`t consider it to be a clone. The ruger lock works were designed in the 1950's. It is nothing like the colt style lock, the design basically unchanged since 1836.

Comparing Rugers to a colt SAA or Colt SAA clone is like comparing 60`s muscle cars to model T`s.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:44 am

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:My perspective on the various SAA's is from a gunsmiths view. Not what they cost or how well they retain their value. Purely from the mechanical perspective.

If you want tuff out of the box, Ruger is the way to go, but I don`t consider it to be a clone. The ruger lock works were designed in the 1950's. It is nothing like the colt style lock, the design basically unchanged since 1836.

Comparing Rugers to a colt SAA or Colt SAA clone is like comparing 60`s muscle cars to model T`s.

The most durable of the SAA clone's is the Pietta made gun. It has colt compatible parts and screws, and like the colt it has a hardened pressed in bolt cam and a hardened recoil/firing pin plate. But, it has a Ruger type coil spring and plunger for the hand spring. The Colt type leaf being the weak link in the Colt design.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:48 am

zack coyote wrote:Will I get used to the larger Vaquero?

Possibly. IMO, it won't get any smaller, but your AWA will. At least once you're used to the Vaquero, the AWA will feel that way. I'd be inclined to stay with what I'm familiar with.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:09 pm

BTW, the new Vaq has the same size grip frame as the 2nd and later Colts.

This is a New Vaq and it has Colt style grips.

Richardx · Post by **Richardx** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:30 pm

My wife and I had .45 Uberti's that I worked over to use in CAS and loved them but they were stolen.

Waiting for the insurance money we tried everything we could: Colt's, every Italian you can name, OM Vaq's and NM Vaq's.

Finally I tried a couple of SASS NM Vaq's that Jim at Longhunter (he is Longhunter) and work on, and that settled it.

We bought .45 5.5" SASS Vaq's thru him and they are much better pistols than we are pistoleros. (thanks, Jim!)

But hey that's why they make cars in different colors, you can buy what you want...

Good luck!

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:58 pm

Ms Boots wears a Vaquero 45 for her ranch chores and shoots snakes with it.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:43 pm

Steve made some excellent points.

In the end, you will never be able to wear out a Colt or a Ruger.

Which one "turns on the soul" should be the one you get.

Between car insurance and real estate taxes, I put out 6 g's a year and have nothing but a receipt to show for. I'm buying Colts.------6

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:20 pm

I had a very early old model Vaquero. I did some tuning and put a nice set of grips on it. It was a nice gun for what it was but you gotta want what it was........I didn't. If I want a Ruger, I want a Blackhawk. Its not pretending to be something its not.

I had a Uberti copy that was a nice shooter and looked good but I gave it to my dad as soon as I could get a Colt.

There is just something about a Colt. The only thing with more cache' than a Colt is an OLDER Colt.
This is something that is important to you or not. To some it means nothing, to others it's everything. To me, this is the real decision. Choose what's going to make you happy the first time. If the difference in cost means a few more months of saving, so be it.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:24 pm

If you are going to shoot it thousands of times, get the Ruger. IMO, they just hold up better. Colts, and Colt clones sure look better though

jkbrea · Post by **jkbrea** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:25 pm

Sixgun wrote:Steve made some excellent points.

In the end, you will never be able to wear out a Colt or a Ruger.

Which one "turns on the soul" should be the one you get.

Between car insurance and real estate taxes, I put out 6 g's a year and have nothing but a receipt to show for. I'm buying Colts.------6

Dammit Sixgun, I've been trying to talk myself out of dropping the cash for a Colt but you make a lot of sense, as did OldWin. Now to decide between .45 or .357.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:56 pm

Oh...............gotta be a .45!

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:55 pm

Griff would tell you he has a lot of rounds through Colts. Both is the answer or all 15 ...

45 for sure.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:40 pm

If money is an issue, and I was on a close budget, then it makes sense to me that a Colt is probably too expensive, unless one is willing to save up for it. That being the case it puts me in solid Ruger or Italian country and in that case, I think I would choose the Ruger New Vaquero with a 5.5 or 4.625 inch barrel, over an Italian replica.

Once I owned a good solid workhorse (Ruger) then I would maybe save up some more and possibly get a nice Colt someday, or even the Italian replica. But everyone's needs and wants are different. Hunting, Cowboy shooting competition, or just plinking and or collecting.

For the one singleaction even one of the Ruger New Vaquero adjustable sighted Flat tops has a lot going for it. It's a little smaller then the regular BlackHawk or Super Blackhawk, but would make a very good and useful handgun.

Boreman · Post by **Boreman** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:21 pm

Zack'
FWIW,I have 7 SA Rugers that consist of 1961 Single Six,1964 Super Blackhawk and a 1965 Blackhawk that have never been converted, and won't. 1997 NEW Model Blackhawk in 45C,1999 Bisley Vaquero in45C,1995 and 1996 Vaqueros in 44-40.
I love the way they shoot. They handle well are accurate and they are bomb proof and made in good ole' USA. What's not to LIKE about them. SA's are in the eye's of the beholder !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:28 pm

Price not a problem? Not sure I know that guy. In the real world, where I live, I don't shoot my Colts, I do however shoot the heck out of my Italian clones. I love them. A gun you can shoot is better than one you can't. I like the finish better on Ubertis than Rugers. I think it nickel not stainless.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:25 pm

Never had a Colt I didn't shoot except the ones I gave away. They are all for shooting. Seemed to have no effect on the ones I traded or sold.

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:37 am

I have a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt with the other cylinder for .45 ACP, and it is more accurate than I am. If I wanted a Colt or a Colt clone, then I would have found a Colt. I don't shoot SASS or Cowboy Action, but some of the gentlemen at Church do in the arena behind the Sanctuary, and the ones who have been at it a while go for the Ruger Vaqueros just due to the durability. One of the shooters has an Italian made copy of a Colt 1860 in .45 with a conversion cylinder for shooting cartridges. He has had to use loctite on the screws, but he likes the feel and the smoothness of it.

Bottom line, get what you want. You will be happier with it no matter what.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:14 pm

I don't shoot SASS or Cowboy Action, but some of the gentlemen at Church do in the arena behind the Sanctuary

Gosh, I love that idea....Around here, someone would call a SWAT team

zack coyote · Post by **zack coyote** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:38 am

Gentlemen, I thank you all for your opinions. After weighing all these opinions, I will retain my AWA, and purchase a Ruger New Vaquero. The Ruger will be my go-to gun, for it's toughness, and the ability to find parts if needed. Zack

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:22 am

Good choice!

Boreman · Post by **Boreman** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:46 am

Excellent choice !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now go have some fun..................

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:46 am

I don't shoot SASS or Cowboy Action, but some of the gentlemen at Church do in the arena behind the Sanctuary

Piller,

Is that mounted shooting? Let me know where, exactly... I might get inspired to get back to training my current horse... and attending said church. (Tho' I'm not much on organized worship). My lack of recent participation has been a lack of local practice and expense of traveling to distant competitions. Oh yeah, and the disapproval of the spousal unit.