Is it worth becoming an FFL

[kmittleman]

Hi All,


After buying some guns online, I'm considering become an FFL so I can avoid the fees associated with firearm transfers. Does anyone know if I can become an FFL just for my own buying - is that allowed? Is it worth the hassle?


Thanks in advance!

-Kevin

[Chuck 100 yd]

I had an FFL for quite a few years just for the reason you state and gave it up for several
reasons.
When Clinton was POTUS they passed a bunch of new rules that made it a pain.
In our county, at least, you must have a store front and post your hours.
I did a few transfers and sales to others but not enough to make it worth the trouble.
And you have to keep a BOUND BOOK with all the info for the feds.
All in all,not worth the hassle for me.

[Mescalero]

When you closed up shop, where did you send the book to?
I always wanted to know.

[SteveR]

I just gave up my 03 C&R FFL, for some of the reasons Chuck said, as well as State laws will effect FFL's also. I my opinion its not worth the hassles and problems with inspections and compliance.

I used to get good deals with the dealer status with some of the big suppliers, but they have really cut back on on dealer pricing, so even with that its not worth it.

Steve

[6pt-sika]

IMHO it ain't worth the BS one has to put up with anymore and God knows what stuff is yet to come !

I had thoughts once of getting a C&R for use at home , but they require you to keep an exact log of everything you have and keep it readily available to them .

Also if I'm not mistaken you have to have a store front anymore to get a license .

[SteveR]

When you closed up shop, where did you send the book to?
I always wanted to know.

If you have a 01 FFL or one of the other FFL that you are using for a business, then you send them to the ATF.

Steve

[Mac in Mo]

I know several individuals that had to give them up because of the storefront requirement. Bunch of BS.

Kevin

[jdad]

If you use your C&R to "flip" firearms you have become a "trader" and not a "collector", in the eyes of the law. Selling a firearm, to purchase a better example, of what you are selling is ok. I never got a C&R because of all the potential problems.

[SteveR]

If you use your C&R to "flip" firearms you have become a "trader" and not a "collector", in the eyes of the law. Selling a firearm, to purchase a better example, of what you are selling is ok. I never got a C&R because of all the potential problems.

There is no problem with "flipping" guns, it's all for your personal collection, that is what the 03 C&R is for. I have had no reservations about buying and selling for better examples in my collection.

I think the problem you are implying, is when you buy and sell to make a profit, then it becomes business and that is not what the 03 C&R is for.

Steve

[Blaine]

I have heard of stories about regular, private citizens getting into tax problems for buying and selling at gun shows, if they do so on a regular basis...I can not confirm this.

[jdad]

If you use your C&R to "flip" firearms you have become a "trader" and not a "collector", in the eyes of the law. Selling a firearm, to purchase a better example, of what you are selling is ok. I never got a C&R because of all the potential problems.

There is no problem with "flipping" guns, it's all for your personal collection, that is what the 03 C&R is for. I have had no reservations about buying and selling for better examples in my collection.

I think the problem you are implying, is when you buy and sell to make a profit, then it becomes business and that is not what the 03 C&R is for.

Steve

Exactly what I meant. I like to shoot 'em until I get bored with 'em and then sell 'em, to find something new and interesting.

[Pete44ru]

.

Also, FWIW, a proviso of holding an FFL is that BATF can (under the law) make an un-announced "inspection" of your books & premesis, even if it's your domicile.


.

[SteveR]

If you use your C&R to "flip" firearms you have become a "trader" and not a "collector", in the eyes of the law. Selling a firearm, to purchase a better example, of what you are selling is ok. I never got a C&R because of all the potential problems.

There is no problem with "flipping" guns, it's all for your personal collection, that is what the 03 C&R is for. I have had no reservations about buying and selling for better examples in my collection.

I think the problem you are implying, is when you buy and sell to make a profit, then it becomes business and that is not what the 03 C&R is for.

Steve

Exactly what I meant. I like to shoot 'em until I get bored with 'em and then sell 'em, to find something new and interesting.

I like your style, just too many ones out there to try and why be stuck with a boring one.

Steve

[SteveR]

.

Also, FWIW, a proviso of holding an FFL is that BATF can (under the law) make an un-announced "inspection" of your books & premesis, even if it's your domicile.


.

Not true for a 03 C&R FFL.

Steve

[Chuck 100 yd]

Mescalero , The FFL manual has an address where to send the book. I don`t remember where though and I have never heard from them since.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Mescalero,The FFL manual has the address to send it to. I cant remember just where though, it`s been a bunch of years now. I have never heard anything back from them.

[Mescalero]

I have in my mind and I do not know where it came from.
A building in Philedelphia, 3 stories underground, a big depository, and a civil servant named Homer, with coke bottle bottom glasses.
And he could not find what you are looking for if his life depended on it.

[JB]

When you closed up shop, where did you send the book to?
I always wanted to know.

From the ATF website:

When an FFL discontinues business, the FFL must send their firearms transactions records to the National Tracing Center (NTC). The NTC receives an average of 1.2 million out-of-business records per month and is the only repository for these records within the United States.

Records can be mailed to the NTC or, alternatively, they may be delivered to your local ATF Office in order to comply with laws for surrendering records (which include all bound log books/acquisition & disposition books and computer printouts, ATF Form 4473’s, Theft/Loss Reports, Multiple Sales Reports, and Brady forms).

[rjohns94]

I had one for a few years. Nope, not worth it

[AJMD429]

I have in my mind and I do not know where it came from.
A building in Philedelphia, 3 stories underground, a big depository, and a civil servant named Homer, with coke bottle bottom glasses.
And he could not find what you are looking for if his life depended on it.

Let's see, was that "Buttle", or "Tuttle" - hmmmmm......

Ever see the movie, "Brazil"...? One of DeNiro's best...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0783225903/

[jh45gun]

I had a C&R for three years and then I got rid of it. It kept tempting me to buy a lot of junk just because it was cheap.

[Mescalero]

No,
I have not seen it?

[earlmck]

Most of the guns that interest me are the old ones. The C&R has been very nice to have and has saved me some money and a long drive to my FFL who handles the newer guns that C&R doesn't cover.

[BAGTIC]

I gave mine up years ago for those same reasons. If you live in an area that doesn't require a store front and allows you to do business out of your home your home becomes subject to unannounced inspections anytime they feel like it.

[kmittleman]

Most of the guns that interest me are the old ones. The C&R has been very nice to have and has saved me some money and a long drive to my FFL who handles the newer guns that C&R doesn't cover.

Interesting. So can you buy modern guns off of the web and not have to go through another FFL? Or is it solely for old stuff?


-Kevin

[6pt-sika]

Most of the guns that interest me are the old ones. The C&R has been very nice to have and has saved me some money and a long drive to my FFL who handles the newer guns that C&R doesn't cover.

Interesting. So can you buy modern guns off of the web and not have to go through another FFL? Or is it solely for old stuff?


-Kevin

If I'm not mistaken a C&R allows you to buy guns on the C&R list that are 50 years old .

[Bill in Oregon]

I had the C&R, and renewed it once, back in the 1990s when really good surplus was cheap and plentiful. I ended up with cosmoline all over the house and a maxed-out credit card (was divorced at the time). I also obtained a manufacturer's FFL in order to comply with the laws governing the sale of jacketed bullets that I made on Corbin swaging equipment. During this period I had a home visit by a BATF agent who drove five hours down from Portland. When she saw my swaging press and supplies occupying a corner of my reloading bench in the den, she allowed as how this might not have been a good use of a federal agent's time. When I asked if she wanted to see my bound book for the C&R, she declined. After the five-minute chat, she drove back to Portland.
Makes a tax-paying American feel real good about things ...

I did get a call last year from the National Tracing Center, asking about one of those Steyr straight-pull carbine in 8X56 Hungarian that I had traded or sold more than 10 years ago. The agent was tickled that I still had my bound book information handy, and I could help him out.

[earlmck]

If I'm not mistaken a C&R allows you to buy guns on the C&R list that are 50 years old .

Yes, it is an easy and inexpensive deal-- sort of an FFL-light license -- doesn't need a store front, does require keeping records of your acquisitions/dispositions. Covers lots of the stuff (say pre-63 Winchesters as of this year ) that us levernuts love, and you can get 'em shipped to your door. If you look on Gunbroker.com you'll see many of the older guns advertised as "C&R eligible". And if the seller doesn't mention it, usually an inquiry will stimulate him to realize that his item is so eligible.

If interested you can download the application off the BATFE website, I'm remembering it as taking about a month for it all to happen...

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, I think mine took more like six weeks, but I was surprised at how painless it was to get the license, and how good it felt to have the keys to the man toy store ...

[bakamorgan]

Sorry going to revive this topic for a sec.

Would it be worth getting an FFL to sell/buy ammo? No guns just ammo. Its not like the ammo manufacturers arnt' backed up them selves, and I doubt they would like oh lets sell to this little guy to help him start up while the bigbox mart and what have you are also trying to get ammo.

[JerryB]

I think you might have a hard time getting a distributor to sell to you as a new customer now the way things are. I sent my license in when ol' billy boy made it to hard to comply, it just wasn't worth it.