New 1895 Guide Gun

[Pitchy]

Hi, just got this new guide gun 45-70 and am working the bugs out of it, smoothed the action up and waiting on a higher rear sight from Marlin as it shot low.
Also have a one piece firing pin and spring kit on the way.
I`ve always been a Winchester nut but i`m impressed how easy the Marlins are to work on.
Nice rifle, two bad the quality is so bad for the money they cost but at the end of the with a little work ya can have a rifle you tuned up yourself and be proud of.
The rife is very accurate and will be a favorite carry gun when i`m done with it.

[Old Savage]

Welcome - nice one there - I like the stock - modern rustic.

[pwl44m]

Welcome Pitchy,This fire was about to burn out. Thx for the stir,Nice Rifle- 45-70- what R U going to Guide an Elephant Safari.Pay no never mind, that's just Me.

[Pitchy]

Welcome Pitchy,This fire was about to burn out. Thx for the stir,Nice Rifle- 45-70- what R U going to Guide an Elephant Safari.Pay no never mind, that's just Me.

Thanks for the welcomes
Naw, it`s those big white tails here in Minnesooooota.
Just love that caliber, have an 86 and sharps in 45-70 also, plus never feel under gunned.

[J Miller]

Welcome to the forum.

If the quality is so bad then how come it's so accurate?

Yeah, Marlins are just so easy to work on that you just gotta do it. Never mind the fact that just taking the thing out using it will smooth it right up without wasting all that money you could be spending for ammo and or loading components.

Yep, keep fixing it, it ain't broke yet.


Joe

[Pitchy]

Welcome to the forum.

If the quality is so bad then how come it's so accurate?

Yeah, Marlins are just so easy to work on that you just gotta do it. Never mind the fact that just taking the thing out using it will smooth it right up without wasting all that money you could be spending for ammo and or loading components.

Yep, keep fixing it, it ain't broke yet.


Joe

Hmmmmmm,
Well lets start with right out of the box i pushed the front sight out of the dove tail with my finger and it shot very low with the rear sight adjusted at the highest position. Marlin is sending a new insert and base and a higher rear sight.
The action was so rough ya could hardly lever it and yes now that i took it apart and smoothed everything up it functions like it should.
So yep as far as i`m concerned it was broke, and i know what i`m doing and happy with my results.
I don`t put up with things that don`t work the way they`er supposed to and fix them myself because i can.
I suppose i could of got all bent out of shape and whined and cried and sent the gun back and took my chances it would of got fixed right but instead as i said in the end i`ll have a nice rifle that i fixed myself.

[J Miller]

Pitchy,

Lets see a loose front sight in the base. It shoots low with the OEM sights. The action was very rough.

Hmmm, I think I would have gone for a shorter front sight rather than a different rear sight.
As for the crappy action, that's almost common any more, but when you add it all together I would have complained and had them fix it. Marlin does have a good reputation for fixing things. AND, we do not consider it whining when we make the dimwits at the factories fix THEIR errors.

Now as for the one piece firing pin and spring kits you'll never convince me they are of any value what so ever. The one piece firing pin is basically designed to speed up action cycling for the cowboy gamesters. It's of no benefit to a rifle used as a hunting or GP weapon. Spring kits are not an action job. A good polishing job with careful sear work will do the job nicely.

But ..... and I must admit that I have forgotten the foremost factor in shooting ........ it's your gun. Fix it till you're happy with it.

OK, I'm done picking on you now ....


Joe




PS: You can ask anybody on this forum and unless they fib they'll tell you I normally do not welcome new members to the forum in this manor. I've just got to say though that something about the first post in this thread just struck the wrong cord with me today. I'll think on it, perhaps it will come to me.

[pwl44m]

Don't take offence to Joe, it's just that He has had the craps for a week and He is feeling His Cheerios again. Hope U R well Joe, I seemed to have picked up a mild case off the screen-is that possible.?

[Hobie]

Pitchy, You have got to know that you SHOULD have returned it. Those darn guys at the Marlin factory, so recently moved and/or hired, need to know that there is stuff running out the door. They deserve to know.

Why was the front sight dovetail loose? The tool was fed too fast into the work, they COULD fix that if they knew about it. Why was it rough? Because neither the fitter/assembler has enough experience/knowledge nor does quality control. Management can't fix what they don't know about. Springs alone can't fix those problems.

As to shooting low with OEM sights, I know neither what ammunition you were using nor what your sight setting was. The devil is in the details there.

Finally, to touch on the one piece firing pin, there's a reason it doesn't come from the factory with one and a reason that all the makers of such I know of don't market them to hunters. The factory system is part of the safety built into the mechanism. I would not have one on any of my Marlins. They were primarily intended to help race-ready the guns for CAS events. Perhaps Adirondack Jack will post up on the subject.

Joe, I know you haven't been feeling well lately (did you get over that crud you had?) but give the guy a break, it was his first post!

[J Miller]

Pitchy, I offer you my sincerest apologies. Hopefully you'll stick around and join us.

Don't take offence to Joe, it's just that He has had the craps for a week and He is feeling His Cheerios again. Hope U R well Joe, I seemed to have picked up a mild case off the screen-is that possible.?

I'm not completely over it yet. I'm pretty sure I got dehydrated and am still suffering dizzies and headaches. I think I'll live though.

Pitchy, You have got to know that you SHOULD have returned it. Those darn guys at the Marlin factory, so recently moved and/or hired, need to know that there is stuff running out the door. They deserve to know.

Why was the front sight dovetail loose? The tool was fed too fast into the work, they COULD fix that if they knew about it. Why was it rough? Because neither the fitter/assembler has enough experience/knowledge nor does quality control. Management can't fix what they don't know about. Springs alone can't fix those problems.

As to shooting low with OEM sights, I know neither what ammunition you were using nor what your sight setting was. The devil is in the details there.

Finally, to touch on the one piece firing pin, there's a reason it doesn't come from the factory with one and a reason that all the makers of such I know of don't market them to hunters. The factory system is part of the safety built into the mechanism. I would not have one on any of my Marlins. They were primarily intended to help race-ready the guns for CAS events. Perhaps Adirondack Jack will post up on the subject.

Joe, I know you haven't been feeling well lately (did you get over that crud you had?) but give the guy a break, it was his first post!

Hobie, perhaps with all my headaches I was channeling Terry Murbach??


Joe

[Hobie]

Hobie, perhaps with all my headaches I was channeling Terry Murbach??


Joe

SOMEBODY NEEDS TO!

[Griff]

What Hobie said.

Pitchy, and Welcome to THE best Forum on the internet. Thanks fer putting up a pic of yer new toy. It probably ain't like any one of us never seen a "Guide" gun before... but at least we can crow about how a great example ours is... or, more'n likely, hang our head, kick our toe in the dirt and mumble something 'bout, "...why doan mine look that nice..."

[Pitchy]

Apology excepted, i`ve been working on guns for a few years i`m 56 years old and have been shooting most my life, am i an expert probably not but if ya give me a chance you`ll learn i`ve made a few neat things.
As far as the firing pin i`ve read opinions both ways and am aware of the safety issues but with the trigger block i`m not real concerned and if i sold the gun would put the factory one back in it.
Sorry to shake anyone up was just trying to contribute to your board.

[Hobie]

Pitchy,

I'm glad to hear you knew about the various opinions on the one-piece firing pin before buying it. Not everyone does before they jump.

[Blaine]

Wow....Welcome Pitchy. You really got the Bum's Rush for a new guy.

[Old Ironsights]

Apology excepted, i`ve been working on guns for a few years i`m 56 years old and have been shooting most my life, am i an expert probably not but if ya give me a chance you`ll learn i`ve made a few neat things.
As far as the firing pin i`ve read opinions both ways and am aware of the safety issues but with the trigger block i`m not real concerned and if i sold the gun would put the factory one back in it.
Sorry to shake anyone up was just trying to contribute to your board.

Nobody's shook up except our grumpy teddy bear... and it's not even Blaine this time...

[Pitchy]

Yepper, i`ll give it a try and if i don`t like the feel of things i`ll take it out.
As far as the other statements don`t worry Marlin got an ear full about how the front sight issue should of never gotten by inspection. They said they didn`t have a lower front sight as that was my first thought also but they said they have a low, med. and high rear sight leafs so seeing they`er buying i told them to send me those which they are. See Joe i am thinking a little just kidding.
The rough action is pretty unacceptable too and i would of had every right to send the gun back but the fit and finish of the wood was nice and i figured i have enough know how to smooth it up myself. Do i think for 600 bucks i should of got a perfect gun, darn right but as i said i didn`t want to send it back, wait for who knows how long and maybe be disapointed with the results anyway.
Am i doing ok Joe ?
I take pride in something i`ve made or fixed with my own hands and as i said when done it will be a rifle i`m proud to carry and hunt with.
The gun shot tree rounds in one hole at 50 yards and windage was right on which i was happy about but way low. My hand load is a 405 grain flat nose bullet over 43 grains of 3031 so i expected it to be a little low but not as bad as it was.
I did shoot a factory 405 jacketed round or two and they shot a hair over the mark at 50 yards but as i said the rear sight was all the way up.
So if i put the medium or high leaf on the rear it should be able to be adjusted for factory ammo and my reloads.
Also it never hurts to learn as ya go, ya grow that way.

[Blaine]

I'm not a bear.

[Old Ironsights]

...
I did shoot a factory 405 jacketed round or two and they shot a hair over the mark at 50 yards but as i said the rear sight was all the way up.
So if i put the medium or high leaf on the rear it should be able to be adjusted for factory ammo and my reloads.
Also it never hurts to learn as ya go, ya grow that way.

Honestly, I agree that you should focus on lowering the front sight rather than mucking about with the rear sight... unless you are going to replace it entirely with an aperture, then your front sight is probably close to correct...

[Old Ironsights]

I'm not a bear.

Well, bearable anyway...

[Pitchy]

...
I did shoot a factory 405 jacketed round or two and they shot a hair over the mark at 50 yards but as i said the rear sight was all the way up.
So if i put the medium or high leaf on the rear it should be able to be adjusted for factory ammo and my reloads.
Also it never hurts to learn as ya go, ya grow that way.

Honestly, I agree that you should focus on lowering the front sight rather than mucking about with the rear sight... unless you are going to replace it entirely with an aperture, then your front sight is probably close to correct...

We`ll give my way a try and go from there and will seek your advice if needed , thanks.

[Birdman]

Hello Pitchy. Welcome. You may notice I'm from Central Illinois just like Joe. Don't hold that against me though. Have fun with yur 95.

[ollogger]

pitchy welcome to the fire
you got hammerd for working on your gun, if youd had a rossi
& did most of that youd had a cheering section

full moon is the 19th

[Pitchy]

Thanks for the welcomes good and bad and nice to meet ya all and glad to be here.
People have always had a problem understanding me i can`t help it was born this way.
I wasn`t bragging about my new gun or my abilities to work on one just joining in and sharing my new but flawed purchase.
Now lets get back to talking about guns.

PS. I do own a Browning 92, a Rossi 92, a Browning 86, and a Henry 22

[Griff]

PS. I do own a Browning 92, a Rossi 92, a Browning 86, and a Henry 22

Yeehaww!!! Another addict. No further explanation necessary!

[J Miller]

Pitchy,

You are doing much better than I am. I hate being sick, sometime I just don't know when to stay in bed.

My ratio of good to bad Marlins is 50-50.
>The first one was an 1894 CS .357 carbine. Fun, Fun, Fun little gun.
Had to sell it to pay bills
>The second one was an 1894 S (I think) 20" carbine in .45 Colt. That one was a sour lemon. The chamber was so huge when the firing pin hit the primer it would push the entire cartridge, including the rim into the chamber. I took that one back to the dealer and got my trade in back.
>The third one was an 1894 Cowboy. One of the early 24" barreled ones in .45 Colt. Oh how sweet it was. Perfect fit and finish. Perfect functioning. .............. But there was zero accuracy to it. Constant key holed bullets at 25 yards, might maybe hit the target at 50 and I almost never saw a bullet make it to the 100 yd line. I was really trying to diagnose the problems but that financial situation came up and it went bye bye.
>The fourth one is (present tense) an 1894 Cowboy Limited with the 20" octagon barrel, also in .45 Colt. The stock fit isn't near as good as the previous one, the front sight was WAY too tall, but it functions perfectly and shoot up a storm.

Yeah I know, I got a thing about Marlin and Winchester 1894s and the .45 Colt cartridge.

I'll be 59 this August and I too have seen and done a thing or two.

Joe

[Ysabel Kid]

Cool - congrats!

[DPris]

Joe,
Re the current state of Marlin quality, I got a .357 in last year intending to make it into a Mare's Leg.
The receiver machining was poorly done, the front sight was tilted with daylight showing under it in the dovetail, the gap between stock & frame was partially filled with what looked like bubblegum. Buttpad was pretty poor looking.
Gun returned to Marlin, project cancelled.

At SHOT in January, looked at two display samples.
Bubblegum filler between wood & frame again on one, clear view completely through that wood/frame gap on the other. And so on.

QC dropped markedly toward the last year of production at the old plant, I'm hoping it'll come back up at the new one.
My working leverguns are Marlins, and I'm not unsympathetic to those workers at the old plant who lost their jobs, but even with outdated equipment I find it hard to excuse what Marlin's put out in the way of leverguns recently.

This is why I don't tell people not to buy, but I do suggest they don't commit without looking at a prospective purchase in hand first.

Denis

[Pitchy]

Pitchy,

You are doing much better than I am. I hate being sick, sometime I just don't know when to stay in bed.

My ratio of good to bad Marlins is 50-50.
>The first one was an 1894 CS .357 carbine. Fun, Fun, Fun little gun.
Had to sell it to pay bills
>The second one was an 1894 S (I think) 20" carbine in .45 Colt. That one was a sour lemon. The chamber was so huge when the firing pin hit the primer it would push the entire cartridge, including the rim into the chamber. I took that one back to the dealer and got my trade in back.
>The third one was an 1894 Cowboy. One of the early 24" barreled ones in .45 Colt. Oh how sweet it was. Perfect fit and finish. Perfect functioning. .............. But there was zero accuracy to it. Constant key holed bullets at 25 yards, might maybe hit the target at 50 and I almost never saw a bullet make it to the 100 yd line. I was really trying to diagnose the problems but that financial situation came up and it went bye bye.
>The fourth one is (present tense) an 1894 Cowboy Limited with the 20" octagon barrel, also in .45 Colt. The stock fit isn't near as good as the previous one, the front sight was WAY too tall, but it functions perfectly and shoot up a storm.

Yeah I know, I got a thing about Marlin and Winchester 1894s and the .45 Colt cartridge.

I'll be 59 this August and I too have seen and done a thing or two.

Joe

We`re all in this screwed up world together and we have to stick together and learn to do things ourselves. If things hit the fan there won`t be no companies to send your gun to to get fixed.
I hope this new Marlin turns out to be a good gun and i wish ya the best with all your projects Joe, time will tell as far as mine goes.
Thanks again for all the welcomes and God Bless.
Lenn

[J Miller]

Denis,

I haven't looked at any new Marlins recently. So I guess I've missed the drop in quality. You think maybe towards the end the old management told the employees to throw together as many as they could as fast as they could?

I agree with never committing to purchasing anything unless you can eye ball it first.

Joe

[DPris]

Joe,
I can't give you the source, but I was told at a "We're closing up here" meeting between higher management at the Freedom Group and Marlin employees that one comment was made along the lines of "Maybe we brought it on ourselves." And that comment did not come from the management side.
I offer that for what it's worth, but I have not gotten the impression that the QC slide was because of the plant being told to hurry as many out as possible toward the end.

I was also told that the previous Marlin owners had not put much into capital improvements in the old plant for quite a while & the equipment was old. That may easily have been a part of the problem & one of the reasons why I hope to see QC come up again in the new location with more updated facilities.
Denis

[Pitchy]

Ok fellers here`s what i did as far as the firing pin, got the new one piece pin and spring kit today but didn`t use any of it. Instead i removed the two piece pin and reduced the tension on the flat spring that is under the pin and made sure the pin moves freely back and forth.
I cut one coil off the lever retention spring which lightened the release pressure by half and i cut 3/4 of a coil off the hammer spring. Also bent the triger spring slightly to reduce it`s pressure a little. These things along with smoothing the entire action has made this Marlin one smooth operating lever gun and i retained the safety feature built into the gun with the two piece firing pin.
I really have no problem using the one piece firing pin but if i can come real close to the same results and keep the safety feature why not.
This is what i did to my gun and not intended as instructions to anyone else.

Here`s what i learned about the hammer spring, the idea of cutting 3/4 of a coil off both ends of the spring came from a article i read elsewhere about tuning a Marlin. What happened to me was the spring is twisted tighter on the ends so it doesn`t slip over the stop on the spring guide bar. I cut both ends and installed, shot fine for a few rounds then i had misfires, what happened was the spring wound itself onto the guid bar futher reducing the spring pressue. I ended up installing a thin small washer on that end to fix the issue.
It would be better imo to only remove spring on one end and intal the spring with that end facing the spring retainer plate.
Hope that helps.

[earlmck]

QC dropped markedly toward the last year of production at the old plant, I'm hoping it'll come back up at the new one.
My working leverguns are Marlins, and I'm not unsympathetic to those workers at the old plant who lost their jobs, but even with outdated equipment I find it hard to excuse what Marlin's put out in the way of leverguns recently.

Denis

I've owned 5 Marlins (two 1950, one from 1970's, one from late 1980's, and a 2004). Three of the five needed serious work (which includes my 1950 30/30 and 2004 45-70) before they functioned correctly. So from my very limited experience, I'm not sure Marlin ever did much "quality control". But now my 1950 rifles in 336A are right toward the top of my favorites list. Just saying, Marlins are great but you might as well expect to do a little work on 'em before they show the greatness. And the same for Rossi, as we have cussed and discussed here.

[Pitchy]

This is what i did to my gun and not intended as instructions to anyone else.

I didn`t intend that statement to sound rude, just covering my butt and don`t want anyone to take my procedures as any expert advice.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

[pwl44m]

It's OK, had U not included that Disclaimer U might have gotten Yelled at. Not by Me , I'm a catcher.

[piller]

Hi Pitchy. I have a Guide Gun in Stainless which I have had for about 3 years and have never had any issue with it. I did put a Skinner sight on the rear and couldn't be happier. Hope you have as much fun with your Guide Gun as I have with mine.

[Chas.]

Pitchy, I'm curious about the mag tube. I've never seen a stock G with a full-length mag tube. Is that one of your additions/mods?

[Pitchy]

Thanks Piller I think it`ll be a good one.

Chas, it`s all factory, new gun

[Huntermb]

I've read quite a few posts on different spots on the net talkin about how some of the new 95's shoot low. I had two, an older one and one that was brand new, got rid of the brand new one after a couple of trips to the range. It shot low, the stocks didn't fit right and the front sight fell out. My dealer took it back and returned it to marlin. I took a credit instead of a new rifle.

[DPris]

Earl,
My first centerfire Marlin was a straight-wrist 95 about 20 years ago, bought used, no idea how old it was. Put together just fine. Wish I'd kept it.
My current .357 is about eight years old, the .45 Cowboy five, the Guide Gun in .45-70 about five, the .44 & .30-30 are both a couple years old.
All were well made. All but the .45 have been lightly customized, but only to meet my needs, not because the basic workmanship was inadequate.

Couple years ago I worked with a Marlin .410, showed a bit of a downhill turn, but wasn't bad enough to offer more than minor annoyance & most probably would not have paid much attention.
I compared my older .357 with the new one last year, the differences in quality were glaringly obvious.

The only dissatisfaction I've ever had with my own Marlins was the .44 that came with a busted buttstock and sheared off fore-end screw on delivery in the box. Still don't understand that one, but Marlin quickly sent replacements.

Maybe I were lucky (mostly) and you were unlucky?
Denis

[earlmck]

Earl,

The only dissatisfaction I've ever had with my own Marlins was the .44 that came with a busted buttstock and sheared off fore-end screw on delivery in the box. Still don't understand that one, but Marlin quickly sent replacements.

Maybe I were lucky (mostly) and you were unlucky?
Denis

I think we're in the spirit of Pitchy's thread, and not hijacking...
Anyway, yes with a sample of just 5 it is easy to have bad (or good) luck play a big part in our experience.

I only bought the 2004 (45/70 rifle, not the guide gun model) new. It wouldn't even begin to feed a cartridge because of a poorly shaped extractor. I know Marlin would have fixed that one, but I'm kinda' like Pitchy so just did my own re-shape with dremel tool until it worked. A grandkid claimed that particular one "spoke" to him, so it went bye-bye.

The other two (1950 model 30/30 and late 80's 35 Rem) were acquired used so didn't try Marlin's repair policy. Both had the "Marlin Jam #1", which back before the internet I didn't have any easy source of help so did my own head scratching until I came up with my fix.

I did have a 1950 model 35 Rem and a later 375 Win work flawlessly right from the get-go. And as I said, I do love the Marlins. They are going to sell me a 308 ME one of these days, I'll bet. For sure they will sell me several when they go ahead and neck these Marlin Expresses down to ... 25?.. 6mm?... 22?

Earl

[Pitchy]

Thanks earlmck, my whole point was not that there seems to be some poor quality control but that if ya get a bad one and it only has problems that can be corrected by doing a little work yourself it`s a good thing.
Talking about the issues on these forums is a valuable asset and helps a person decide what action they may take in fixing their gun. I was all set on using the one piece firing pin but after reading the responces and advice from posters i decided to strip the bolt down and see if the two piece firing pin could be smoothed up so that it would work better. When i got my gun i had to carry my handyman jack along to cycle the action just kidding but it left a lot to be desired
Read through a lot of search results and seen that i can smooth the action up myself so went at it and now it functions flawlesly and smooth as butter.
As soon as my new sights come i`ll sight it in and post a range report and show how nice of a gun it is .
I`d like to be clear that there was nothing wrong with the one piece firing pin or springs it`s a good product but i agree with some that it is better suited for building a race gun .
Each to they`er own and i may use it in another gun some day but for now i`m happy with the way i went.
Also if ya get a gun that is bad rough by all means send it back to Marlin and have them make it right or if ya don`t want to work on it yourself, that`s what the waranty is for.
Hey Joe i think i caught your crud i`m feeling pretty bad this morning.

[Streetstar]

Welcome Pitchy ! I like your rifle, especially the full length mag tube

I may be slightly in the minority -- my 1998 vintage Guide Gun with the dreaded barrel ports is awesome ! (or maybe i'm just easilly amused)

Minute of clay pigeon accuracy as far as i need to shoot it, and the ports make shot to shot recovery fairly swift. Sadly, i am not much on aesthetics, so i cant comment on wood fit and so on --- i do know when something looks "pretty bad " though --- but for a 5-600 $ hunting rifle, mine seems good enough.

I won't talk about my 1894 in .44 Mag though Sheesh , what a money pit

[Pitchy]

Thanks Streetstar,
Everything i have is for use, if not i have no need for it, though i`m a little more careful with some
Sounds like ya have a good un with your guide gun.

[3leggedturtle]

Welcome Pitchey. What part of MN do you hang your hat? The SBL are nice guns, wish 1895ss had a full lengh tube magazine, but they are very accurate. Got mine in mid '06 and other than putting a williams peep on it, has been good to go since day 1. IF'em your up north how much snow is left on ground?

[Pitchy]

Welcome Pitchey. What part of MN do you hang your hat? The SBL are nice guns, wish 1895ss had a full lengh tube magazine, but they are very accurate. Got mine in mid '06 and other than putting a williams peep on it, has been good to go since day 1. IF'em your up north how much snow is left on ground?

Thanks, i`m up a little north of Brainerd.
There`s about a foot of snow in the woods but they`er talking about more coming next week.

[pokey]

now that all that new guy initiation is over.

welcome home.
and i like your mantle decorations, too.

[Pitchy]

now that all that new guy initiation is over.

welcome home.
and i like your mantle decorations, too.

Thanks pokey, those wood planes finally bugged me enough that i went out and sharpened the heck out of them and made curls with one for the first time in my life.

[pokey]

made curls with one for the first time in my life.

careful, that's another addiction.
here are some of mine.

P3050555.JPG

[Pitchy]

Cool, i have a real long wooden plane also and a bunch of spoke shaves and such but lets not change this topic. I`m going to start a couple wood working projects soon so lets post about planes there, i`m not very good with wood so don`t laugh.