Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

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Bridger
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Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Bridger »

Even though I'm only 25, I struggle sometimes to see iron sights clear enough to use them as effectively as I feel like I should be able to. I do wear glasses, but I'm not sure how much of this problem is related to sight and how much of it is just that maybe the particular sights on my rifles don't work for me. Anyway, I know a scope would solve this problem, but I don't like them, and prefer for all my rifles to retain iron/non optical sights. So my question is, do you think peep sights would be an improvement for me? Do you prefer them over regular factor iron sights anyway? Any brand you prefer?

I know that's a very broad question, but I've got a Remington 700 30-06 and a Winnie 94 in 30-30 I'm seriously considering putting them on.

Thanks guys!
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Blaine »

When I had a Leupold Scout Scope and a set of Ashley Outdoors Ghost Ring and HiViz front sight on my Guide Gun, I could shoot to about the same degree of accuracy with either one at about 100 yards...
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by claybob86 »

I find the peeps quite a bit easier to use than the standard rear sights. Just look through the aperture and put your front sight on the target. One less thing to focus on and align. The brands I've used are Williams and Skinner. They both make fine products, but there are other good ones too.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by HawkCreek »

I spent a few years in the military so that undoubtedly influences my choices but I remember even as a young boy preferring peep sights over the regular buckhorn style iron sights. Some will argue that the peep covers up more of your target which could come into play when hunting but I never found that to be the case (maybe I've just been lucky so far).
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by gundownunder »

I have 2 rifles with peeps front and rear, and 1 with open sights.
For the competitions I shoot I do need to use open sights at times, but I do get better accuracy with the peep sights.
For most matches I use Williams or Lyman rear sights and a Lyman 17 front sight, with Lee Shaver inserts.

Even if you kept the standard front sight, a rear peep should improve things for you.
As for you wearing glasses, depends what they are for as to whether the different sights would change things.

I don't know what things are like in the USA, but here in Oz if you rocked up at my local club and said " Hey, I've got open sights and I see you have peeps, could I have a look to see which works better for me" , a bunch of blokes would hand you their guns.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by AJMD429 »

Peeps WAY Better for me.

Not all of them block much view; besides all the 'regular' sights block everything below your aiming point.

The Marbles 'Bullseye' sights are awesome though, and combine extreme speed with decent precision by having two concentric rings. They do NOT block the lower half of the view like regular irons, but they are only adjustable the same coarse way other 'wedge-and-drift' factory barrel-mounted sights are. But once sighted in they are great.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by piller »

The M16 family of firearms uses a rear peep sight and there are a lot of us who have used one that was issued to us. Peep sights are good for most situations, and the bigger aperture is better for close range or faster work such as hunting in the brush. The smaller aperture is better for longer ranges or finer work such as slow fire in the target or hunting in open grassland rolling hills type of terrain where your quarry will be spotted at 200 yards or more away. I an 52 years old and nearsighted, use a computer all day, and peep sights are much easier for me now than open sights. When ranges get above 100 yards it is peep or glass now for me. Even my .30-30 is wearing a scope. It hurts my sense of aesthetics to see a beautiful levergun with a scope, but practicality and ethical standards win. My .35 Remington caliber Marlin will get a Skinner peep sight soon. Heck, my Ruger Super Redhawk will be receiving a peep sight after the Marlin does. Just opening the aperture to ghost ring size by removing the threaded insert will make shooting that pistol accurately just a lot easier. My 1911 is getting some high visibility sights added and it should be done by Friday. Just waiting on the sights to come in so that the gun shop can install them. When your vision is not perfect, it is not a bad thing to be practical and use something to improve your chances of making a good shot. Peep sights are one such improvement.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by missionary5155 »

Good morning
Been using receiver "peep" sights since the Army turned me loose in 74.
Fast to sight, as accurate in all hunting conditions I have used them. Off cross sticks or complete hand / body held rifles with a peep sight has won all the long range matches since the 1880's. The longer sight radius of receiver / tang sights give that 30-50% inherent accuracy simple because the front sight off center will be that much more obvious.
So in the end for many of us... what is there not to like ? And if Ol' Daniel himself might have seen a sturdy one he just might have used it. Peeps were on target flintlocks way back in the 1750's. But generally they were not sturdy enough to be taken to the field for long hunts. Todays receiver sights... well you have to really bash them to break them. They will break... but then so would any other sight subjected to that type of impact energy.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Griff »

Peep sights are considered "irons" in almost all cases. Some can have an optical element put into the aperture, and in certain competitions these may be legal. Peep sights are not considered "open" sights, which is generally reserved for the various buckhorn styles.

In almost all instances the peep sight will improve shooting. Whether this is strictly due to the centering of the eye in the aperture or the slightly longer distance between front & rear sights can be debatable. The size of the aperture will definitely influence to what degree there's an improvement. Smaller aperture sizes usually improve accuracy the most, but can be problematic in low light situations.

I've had guys tell me that they find an open aperture faster in sighting on multiple targets (as in cowboy action) than any type of open sights. I haven't found that to be true in my case. Personally, I prefer tang peep sights, but one must learn to keep the thumb alongside the tang, rather than wrapped over it. Others have said how much they dislike this technique, so receiver or bolt mounted peeps are their preference. I'll take the longer sight radius over the slight reduction in grip.

The receiver mounted peep:
Image

My favorite "open" sight, a 3/4 buckhorn:
Image

My favorite "peep" sight, a variation on the Lyman #2, but with a windage adjustment:
Image

Three common front sights:( l-r: post, hooded, & globe)
Image
The hood on the middle sight is pushed forward to show the ball & post on this factory pre-64 mdl 94 Winchester
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Griff »

Bridger wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:42 pm...but I've got a Remington 700 30-06 and a Winnie 94 in 30-30 I'm seriously considering putting them on.
Thanks guys!
Time for some "male bonding" as I tell the spousal unit... I'm SURE you meant to type WINCHESTER... right? :twisted: :P :P :P
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Big peep sight fan here. With my 64-year-old eyes and cataracts, I can scarcely use an open sight any more.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by .45colt »

I have four rifles with the Williams foolproof receiver sights. several years ago when the local deer were starving due to the 30" of snow and cold they would come up within 50 yards of the back porch each night at dusk I was able to take any and all of My guns out there to test the sights (not Shooting). the receiver sights were hands down the best of any .
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by mikld »

When my eyesight took a down turn I couldn't hit anything with my guns' open sights, rifles or handguns. After trying a few different configurations (full buck horn, "Bullseye", flat top square, round, etc.) I went with a Williams Fool roof on my Puma and a One Ragged Hole peep on my Ruger SBH. The holes then started appearing closer to the center of the target... :lol:
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Pete44ru »

.

For any shooting other than in bright sunlit or snow covered areas, I've found that a receiver/peepsight in combination with a fiber-optic front sight works wonders for suddenly-presented shots, like when deer/hog hunting.

I started with a Williams Firesight set (matching peep/front) for a WInchester 94, but soon learned to mix/match fiber optic front sights from the various FO sight makers ( Williams, Hi-Viz, Tru[Glo, Marbles, NECG, etc, etc).

FO front (and some open/rear) sights are available in the same 2 bead sizes (1/16"-fine & 3/32"-cioarse) as the (gold, ivory, etc) front sight beads from various manufacturers - AND in various colors (red, green, amber, yellow, etc) to accommodate the different color perceptions that different people have.

Receiver peepsights are generally available in two different variations - with micrometer-type W/E adjustments, or with sliding/grubscrew "set-n'forget" W/E adjustments.

I find that, while micrometer-adjustments are fine for paper target work, the "set-n-forget" types work best for me, since I usually settle on 1 load for hunting. (YMMV)



Image

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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Pisgah »

There is no ideal sighting arrangement for all rifles and all situations. Every one has its advantages and disadvantages. Perhaps the low-powered scope comes the closest to an ideal, but among iron sights the peep reigns supreme. Properly set up and properly used, nothing is faster or more accurate in a wide range of applications.

Most folks new to peeps make two basic mistakes. First, they select an aperture that is too small. A small aperture is great for target shooting under good lighting conditions, but can prove frustrating in fast, up-close shooting or low light. The second mistake is in how the sight is used -- you should never try to center the front sight in the rear aperture; rather, let your eye do the work. No matter the size of the aperture, you should always simply look through it and place the front sight where you want the shot to go. The center, big peep or small, is always the center, and your eye will naturally and automatically find it if you allow it to. The aperture itself should not even be in your consciousness.

So-called "twilight" apertures look good, but don't really provide much of anything positive for me. If low light shooting is a concern, a bright front sight is the way to go. I find fiber optic front sights a hindrance; yes, they are bright, but to my eye represent more of a bright, amorphous blob of light than a precise aiming point. Better for me is a white or German silver, fairly thin, Patridge-style post. Some may prefer a bead, but don't make it too big.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Pete44ru »

Pisgah wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:59 am
I find fiber optic front sights a hindrance; yes, they are bright, but to my eye represent more of a bright, amorphous blob of light than a precise aiming point.

Since FO front sight beads are available in the same sizes as Ivory/Gold beads, I would respectfully suggest that one of the smaller 1/16"-fine size FO bead front sights might improve upon what you're seeing.

.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Carlsen Highway »

I am going to buck the trend....

I have used both open sights and apertures sights extensively for target shooting and for hunting deer, and after using both I have come to prefer open sights over peep sight for hunting.

I have Williams and Lyman peeps sights and have taken them off my rifles. I do not care for plastic or fibre optic sights. They are not precise enough for my liking, and I have found them fragile.

AS far the accuracy difference, I have found that with correct open sights and understanding how to use them, they will shoot as well as peep sights out to 200 yards. Ranges further than that the peep sight and a front blade will take over.)

After a lot of study of old records and experimentation, the front bead foresight combined with an open rear, either a notch, or even better a wide V are the best for both hunting and target shooting at less than 200 yards. I have found that the standard sights as used on a Winchester 94 are generally excellent.

Image

First the front bead must be filed backwards at a 45 degree angle to catch the light from above. This will give you a white or silver bead. The rear sight can be a notch, a V, (I prefer a wide V, like British express sights) or even a straight horizontal bar with nothing on it.
The bead of the front sight is placed in the bottom of the notch or the V so that only the circle of the bead can be seen. This means that you elevation is easily kept constant and precise. The windage will take care of itself, (unless the notch or V is too wide.) With a flat bar, the bead is simply perched on top of the line in the middle of the rear sight. The eye will easily centre it.

For target shooting, despite what 'common knowledge' will tell you, these type of sights will shoot as well as the rifle can at 100 yards. IT is quite possible to shoot one inch groups with them if the rifle will do it. I can shoot as well with these sights as I can with a four power scope. (This has nothing to do with your eyesight either.)

When hunting, the advantage of the open sights over a peep , is that with a small aperture there is not enough light to see clearly, and with a wide aperture, or a ghost ring aperture, it is too easy to too lose precision when under stress and pressure of having an animal in your sghts. Yes, you are supposed to just look through a peep sight and not 'line it up'- but you are not supposed to ignore the rear sight completely, and I found I was completely forgetting the rear sight when stressed or in a bad shooting position, and the front sight would often not be centred if I had a bad shooting position, or if the rifle did not fit me well.
My most awful misses on game with iron sights have been with a peep sight, and I do not trust myself with them on game anymore. (I shoot very well with them on the range) With ghost ring sights and under pressure, I am certain that at time I might even have not been looking through the aperture it was so ghostly!
It might just be me, but I have found there is definitely a point of diminishing returns with the size of a rear aperture.

There is a reoccurring bias these days that peep sights are undeniably 'better' than open sights, and that open sights are crude and inefficient. This is demonstratably untrue. It is easier to teach people to use a peep sight, and they are better for target shooting at long range (both reasons why the military came to use them) but open sights are great hunting sights, and there is a reason the dangerous game rifles has them. And while shots at seven yards on a charging buffalo are not a test of the sights, it does indicate that when people are under pressure they shoot naturally with a bead and rear open sight ( a wide V). Testing these kind of sights, I have found them to be remarkably accurate at 100 yards also.
Explore the use of the British express sights - a bead and a wide V. (But a notch will do also.)

Again the bead must be placed at the bottom of the rear sight - not up level with the top of the V or notch.

Also, for range work, it often will be helpful, to use a black background target (or grey) and a white bullseye, so you can see the bead against the target clearly.

For target shooting and sighting in, use a six oclock hold. But have the point of impact fall into the centre of the area the bead covers, so that when you are hunting you can shoot through the bead like a red dot sight while having both eyes open.

Image

Two of these three shot groups measure an inch or less, and all were shot consecutively at 100 metres as part of regulating the sights on a .243, using a bead front sight and a flat express bar (with no notch, or v at all). These are the sights on the far right above.

I shot the following last week checking the zero on my Winchester 73 in .44-40 at 100 metres, using a bead foersight and a V open rear. (Its not a fluke the rifle shoots very well with this load.) Its only three shots as a zero test, but the group is under an inch at 100 yards.
I convert all my lever actions to a bead and open V rear sight, apart from my Winchester 94's, their factory sights are satisfactory to me.

Image

Townsend Whelen was one of the great proponents of the aperture sight, but Townsend Whelen was mostly a long distance military target shooter, plus from an early age he only ever used a peep sight. According to his own writings, he used nothing but a peep sight from the age of fifteen until he started using scopes. I have a Springfield rifle with an aperture receiver sight, which I leave alone, in honour of Mr Whelen. But otherwise, for hunting rifles, I have abandoned the peep sght.

Do not overlook open sights.
Last edited by Carlsen Highway on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:11 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Pisgah »

Pete44ru wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:39 pm
Pisgah wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:59 am
I find fiber optic front sights a hindrance; yes, they are bright, but to my eye represent more of a bright, amorphous blob of light than a precise aiming point.

Since FO front sight beads are available in the same sizes as Ivory/Gold beads, I would respectfully suggest that one of the smaller 1/16"-fine size FO bead front sights might improve upon what you're seeing.

.
That may well be true for you. But not all eyes are the same. I've tried the little 'uns as well as the big 'uns, and they just don't work as well for me.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

I’m 65 and open irons are no longer an option.

I saved this article about peep sights written back in the late 40’s by the famous Col. Townsend Whelen. Notice the aperture rear/aperture front groups.
Why choose a peep sight for Rifles?
Col.Townsend Whelen

All military battle rifles and many "Dangerous Game Guns" have been fitted with peep sights for at least the last 70 years. There is a good reason for this. They are the fastest and most accurate iron sight you can put on your rifle.


Here is some information on sighting errors as put forth by no less than, Col.Townsend Whelen, in his book on reloading, "Why Not Load Your Own," published in 1949 when the use of telescopic sights was a rarity. With normal eyesight, either naturally or corrected by glasses, he found that the following list applied at a distance of 100 yards:

Open Rear Sight: Accuracy is unpredictable due to lighting conditions (shoots away from side lighting, and high for overhead mid-day conditions).
Aperture Rear, Gold or Ivory front: 1.5 -2"
Aperture Rear, Black Post front: 1"
Aperture Rear, Aperture front: 1/2 to 3/4"
2-1/2x Scope: 1/4-1/2"
6x Scope: 1/8" to 1/4"
10x Scope: 1/16" to 1/8"
20x Scope: Practically None.
As you can see from the information above, the ability to sight using a aperture sight exceeds the accuracy of most rifles.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by donw »

i use iron/open sights for close range... :? 8)
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Bridger »

Thanks a bunch for the replies you guys! Also for the terminology correction lol


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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Lastmohecken »

Carlsen Highway wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:17 pm I am going to buck the trend....

I have used both open sights and apertures sights extensively for target shooting and for hunting deer, and after using both I have come to prefer open sights over peep sight for hunting.

I have Williams and Lyman peeps sights and have taken them off my rifles. I do not care for plastic or fibre optic sights. They are not precise enough for my liking, and I have found them fragile.

AS far the accuracy difference, I have found that with correct open sights and understanding how to use them, they will shoot as well as peep sights out to 200 yards. Ranges further than that the peep sight and a front blade will take over.)

After a lot of study of old records and experimentation, the front bead foresight combined with an open rear, either a notch, or even better a wide V are the best for both hunting and target shooting at less than 200 yards. I have found that the standard sights as used on a Winchester 94 are generally excellent.

Image

First the front bead must be filed backwards at a 45 degree angle to catch the light from above. This will give you a white or silver bead. The rear sight can be a notch, a V, (I prefer a wide V, like British express sights) or even a straight horizontal bar with nothing on it.
The bead of the front sight is placed in the bottom of the notch or the V so that only the circle of the bead can be seen. This means that you elevation is easily kept constant and precise. The windage will take care of itself, (unless the notch or V is too wide.) With a flat bar, the bead is simply perched on top of the line in the middle of the rear sight. The eye will easily centre it.

For target shooting, despite what 'common knowledge' will tell you, these type of sights will shoot as well as the rifle can at 100 yards. IT is quite possible to shoot one inch groups with them if the rifle will do it. I can shoot as well with these sights as I can with a four power scope. (This has nothing to do with your eyesight either.)

When hunting, the advantage of the open sights over a peep , is that with a small aperture there is not enough light to see clearly, and with a wide aperture, or a ghost ring aperture, it is too easy to too lose precision when under stress and pressure of having an animal in your sghts. Yes, you are supposed to just look through a peep sight and not 'line it up'- but you are not supposed to ignore the rear sight completely, and I found I was completely forgetting the rear sight when stressed or in a bad shooting position, and the front sight would often not be centred if I had a bad shooting position, or if the rifle did not fit me well.
My most awful misses on game with iron sights have been with a peep sight, and I do not trust myself with them on game anymore. (I shoot very well with them on the range) With ghost ring sights and under pressure, I am certain that at time I might even have not been looking through the aperture it was so ghostly!
It might just be me, but I have found there is definitely a point of diminishing returns with the size of a rear aperture.

There is a reoccurring bias these days that peep sights are undeniably 'better' than open sights, and that open sights are crude and inefficient. This is demonstratably untrue. It is easier to teach people to use a peep sight, and they are better for target shooting at long range (both reasons why the military came to use them) but open sights are great hunting sights, and there is a reason the dangerous game rifles has them. And while shots at seven yards on a charging buffalo are not a test of the sights, it does indicate that when people are under pressure they shoot naturally with a bead and rear open sight ( a wide V). Testing these kind of sights, I have found them to be remarkably accurate at 100 yards also.
Explore the use of the British express sights - a bead and a wide V. (But a notch will do also.)

Again the bead must be placed at the bottom of the rear sight - not up level with the top of the V or notch.

Also, for range work, it often will be helpful, to use a black background target (or grey) and a white bullseye, so you can see the bead against the target clearly.

For target shooting and sighting in, use a six oclock hold. But have the point of impact fall into the centre of the area the bead covers, so that when you are hunting you can shoot through the bead like a red dot sight while having both eyes open.

Image

Two of these three shot groups measure an inch or less, and all were shot consecutively at 100 metres as part of regulating the sights on a .243, using a bead front sight and a flat express bar (with no notch, or v at all). These are the sights on the far right above.

I shot the following last week checking the zero on my Winchester 73 in .44-40 at 100 metres, using a bead foersight and a V open rear. (Its not a fluke the rifle shoots very well with this load.) Its only three shots as a zero test, but the group is under an inch at 100 yards.
I convert all my lever actions to a bead and open V rear sight, apart from my Winchester 94's, their factory sights are satisfactory to me.

Image

Townsend Whelen was one of the great proponents of the aperture sight, but Townsend Whelen was mostly a long distance military target shooter, plus from an early age he only ever used a peep sight. According to his own writings, he used nothing but a peep sight from the age of fifteen until he started using scopes. I have a Springfield rifle with an aperture receiver sight, which I leave alone, in honour of Mr Whelen. But otherwise, for hunting rifles, I have abandoned the peep sght.

Do not overlook open sights.
I tend to agree with you for the most part. I am almost 60yrs old and I have experimented with peep sights off and on for nearly 50yrs and I still have them on several of my guns, but a good open sight if set up right, is my favorite iron sight. But except for the closest and fastest shooting, I consider a good scope to be the best of all. My problem is my eye often does not see a round hole in the peep sight, and I have also never found my eye to consistently center the bead or post. I can do good shooting with peep sights but it just depends on the set up. Same with open sights, some are great, and my favorites, others not so much. Some of the older guns had really good open sights.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by zoner »

when my eyes started to go bad i went from the factory irons to a Lyman tang peep sight on my 1942 Winchester M94....accuracy wise the difference was night and day. I can do 2" 3 shot groups at 100 yds on my good days. I can't do that with factory irons....Mike
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by KWK »

Carlsen Highway wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:17 pm... I have found that with correct open sights and understanding how to use them, they will shoot as well as peep sights out to 200 yards.
Thanks for the inspiration. I've never cared for the dimming a peep sight creates, but I'm trying a tang sight of late. My glasses are of a strong correction, and my neck is long; many stocks force me to look through other than the "sweet spot" of my lenses, leaving a fuzzy image with the opens. Age isn't helping, either. I plan to try moving the rear elevator open sight forward by reversing it in its dovetail.

I found one problem with receiver peeps that hadn't occurred to me before, on my son's rifle last week. With the sun over your shoulder, the peep face can white-out in direct sunlight, even if it is flat black.

I've wondered if the British got the shallow vee backwards. It seems an inverted vee, with a rounded notch for the bead, would be better. The tops of the vee would align with the bead's center, making it easier to center it. Nestling a bead on top of a shallow vee never seems very precise to me. I plan to experiment with this, as well.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by tman »

I have never found a better sight than a peep mounted on a carbine length lever action. If, your shots are under 150 yards and more like 50, and you hunt in the bush and do more stalking/sitting as opposed to stand hunting, peeps are the only way to go. But, your mileage may vary. As others have stated , try out a friends peep sighted gun, see if it works for your hunting and shooting, before you take the plunge.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Carlsen Highway »

KWK wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:10 am
Carlsen Highway wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:17 pm... I have found that with correct open sights and understanding how to use them, they will shoot as well as peep sights out to 200 yards.
Thanks for the inspiration. I've never cared for the dimming a peep sight creates, but I'm trying a tang sight of late. My glasses are of a strong correction, and my neck is long; many stocks force me to look through other than the "sweet spot" of my lenses, leaving a fuzzy image with the opens. Age isn't helping, either. I plan to try moving the rear elevator open sight forward by reversing it in its dovetail.

I found one problem with receiver peeps that hadn't occurred to me before, on my son's rifle last week. With the sun over your shoulder, the peep face can white-out in direct sunlight, even if it is flat black.

I've wondered if the British got the shallow vee backwards. It seems an inverted vee, with a rounded notch for the bead, would be better. The tops of the vee would align with the bead's center, making it easier to center it. Nestling a bead on top of a shallow vee never seems very precise to me. I plan to experiment with this, as well.
You don't actually need the Vee at all for perfect precision - if you look at my diagrams above, the straight flat bar on teh far right shoots just as accurately, and has no notch or Vee at all. (Also I didn't have any white line down the middle of my rear sight as I have depicted in my drawing, although that's what the 'proper' sights used to have, a white or platinum stripe.)
It works on the same principle as the aperture sight, where the mind finds it easy to automatically centre an object - in this case in the middle of the bar.
There is a downside here - in that it works great up until you have a rifle that doesn't fit well - or a hunting situation under pressure which forces a bad rifle fit - by this I mean shooting from an angle, while perched on a log, etc and being pressed for time....the same fault occurs as with a ghost ring peep sight - the rear sight is ignored and nothing is centered.
The open Vee, or a shallow Vee gets rid of this fault, so I went back to this arrangement.

But that upside down Vee is an interesting idea. I think it would end up being the same result as the normal Vee - With the bead only showing as a circle so that elevation is constant, the slope of the Vee either coming in from the sides from above (or below as you describe) the mind recognises the pattern, and centres the left and right....I am fairly sure your idea would work the same as a normal Vee. Although the upside down Vee would cover less of the target area.
It's possible that there might be the same issue that I sometimes have with post type reticles in German scopes, the single black upright post that come to a point...I sometimes cant really tell where the point ends...a point is infinitly long if you know what I mean, and so I am often unsure of precisely where the tip of the point actually is, when I am trying to be ultra-precise.
It would be interesting to try your idea out though.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by KWK »

I understand how the center-line works to position the bead horizontally, but vertical alignment requires setting with consistency the bead on top of the vee or the bar. This past week I had a chance to shoulder a Ruger bolt gun with express sights, a shallow vee with a white line. It was very easy to quickly position the bead, but as I moved my head around slightly, vertical alignment eluded me. With my glasses, it's just too fuzzy; I can't tell if the bead is sitting tangent to the legs of the vee, or if it's sunk a smidgen below or floating a hair high.

When I was younger, I preferred a square blade in a square notch. Ideally the front blade would be so wide as to fill the notch, and a black line up the center of the blade would then be easy to position in the notch, with no distraction from the background. I should try that some day. I admit it's slower to align than the express sight, though.

edit: Reading your post again, perhaps I just need to take the time with the shallow vee to try to form a consistent sight image. I've bought an elevator style rear sight to try in one of my son's rifles. I plan to install it backwards to get a little more eye relief, and then solder to it various shapes to see what might work for me.
Last edited by KWK on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by AJMD429 »

mikld wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:36 am When my eyesight took a down turn I couldn't hit anything with my guns' open sights, rifles or handguns. After trying a few different configurations (full buck horn, "Bullseye", flat top square, round, etc.) I went with a Williams Fool roof on my Puma and a One Ragged Hole peep on my Ruger SBH. The holes then started appearing closer to the center of the target... :lol:
Yep, I have done the same thing. If I want a rapid, or accurate shot from a non-optically-sighted firearm, I will be using an aperture sight, whether it is rifle, shotgun, or handgun. (....and not sure why one wouldn't want either an accurate, OR a rapid, shot...???)

Like Col Whelen found, an aperture on BOTH front and rear is extremely accurate, and substituting the 'gold bead' on a pistol with a short section of roll-pin soldered on top of the front sight in its place, one can have the best of both worlds - a quick shot using it as a 'bead', and a very precise sight when using it as an aperture, centered in the rear aperture.

I'd post pics, but PhotoSuckit ate 'em.... :evil:
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by JB »

Yes go with a peep. You'll find the accuracy far above any other type of iron sights. There's a reason they're on target rifles and not traditional sights. I've found I can shoot a good target peep just about as accurately as a low powered scope.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Old Savage »

Pretty personal on results. I seem to shoot as well with one as the other except for a brass bead in sunlight .
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by JB »

You might not see much difference unless you're shooting accurate rifles. You're average 30-30 might not show much difference at close range, but take a look at any top level competitions and you won't see any standard open sights in use. I can shoot dirt clods or deer fine with standard open sights, but take a good target rifle on paper and you'll see how superior target peeps are. The large rear aperture field sights don't offer quite as much improvement as smaller target apertures of course, but they still offer an advantage.
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Re: Peep Sight vs Iron Sight

Post by Carlsen Highway »

KWK wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:49 pm I understand how the center-line works to position the bead horizontally, but vertical alignment requires setting with consistency the bead on top of the vee or the bar. This past week I had a chance to shoulder a Ruger bolt gun with express sights, a shallow vee with a white line. It was very easy to quickly position the bead, but as I moved my head around slightly, vertical alignment eluded me. With my glasses, it's just too fuzzy; I can't tell if the bead is sitting tangent to the legs of the vee, or if it's sunk a smidgen below or floating a hair high.

When I was younger, I preferred a square blade in a square notch. Ideally the front blade would be so wide as to fill the notch, and a black line up the center of the blade would then be easy to position in the notch, with no distraction from the background. I should try that some day. I admit it's slower to align than the express sight, though.

edit: Reading your post again, perhaps I just need to take the time with the shallow vee to try to form a consistent sight image. I've bought an elevator style rear sight to try in one of my son's rifles. I plan to install it backwards to get a little more eye relief, and then solder to it various shapes to see what might work for me.

KWK, you have described the problem I have also had when the rear sight is too close to my eyes. A larger bead does help in this situation, otherwise moving the rear sight forward is all that can be done.
Reversing the rear sight in its dovetail is one solution: With my '73 I have removed the factory rear sight and replaced it with another leaf sight from a Husqvarna bolt action, which fits into the same dovetail, effectively moving the front sight forward by three inches. Eventually I think we will all have to go to a peep sight in the end for these reasons.
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