Banning Lead Ammunition

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 21976
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Banning Lead Ammunition

#1 Post by AJMD429 » Tue May 16, 2017 6:42 am

This article - http://www.alloutdoor.com/2017/05/11/le ... mmunition/ - makes the 'case' for "banning lead ammunition", but the author seems to be oblivious to the FACT that nearly all the "lead" exposure shooters have is from the PRIMER, not the bullet.
Image Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#2 Post by J Miller » Tue May 16, 2017 6:54 am

I didn't read the article because I've read others and they are all pretty much the same regurgitated leftist propaganda.

Banning lead bullets has nothing to do with health concerns, it just another way to stop normal people from shooting. Make it too expensive or too hard to find ammo for the old shooter and people just quit shooting. That's all there is to it.

Considering lead exposure from primers ... well just quit shooting in poorly ventilated indoor shooting ranges. I do not know of any one with a high lead level that shoots outdoors.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***

piller
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 5873
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#3 Post by piller » Tue May 16, 2017 6:55 am

He also forgets to mention that there are ways to remove lead from the body. The same organic compounds which are used over the counter to hold potassium in a form which allows it to be absorbed will scavenge other metal ions as they are removed by micturation.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost

User avatar
GunnyMack
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 am

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#4 Post by GunnyMack » Tue May 16, 2017 7:12 am

They also don't understand that if the have copper plumbing, they are getting lead that leaches from the solider. Especially if it's an older home.

User avatar
Ray
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:45 am

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#5 Post by Ray » Tue May 16, 2017 8:44 am

The same goomer or one just like him wrote up a steel shot quail and bunny hunt and intimated that lead shot was evil and nigh on criminal....the comments at the bottom of the page were almost unanimously pro-lead and really got him down the road about it and were soon disabled....some used some rather crude descriptive language.....if he didn't get his feelings hurt then he probably actually resembled the more lewd remarks.....the irony is that he claimed to be a 5th generation texican....

User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#6 Post by J Miller » Tue May 16, 2017 9:33 am

Ray,

They have leftists in Texas too .... sadly.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***

Malamute
Member Emeritus
Posts: 3446
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:56 am
Location: Rocky Mts

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#7 Post by Malamute » Tue May 16, 2017 10:19 am

I dont agree with his conclusion, nor do I agree that shooting in poorly ventilated ranges is the only way to take in lead. The residue onfired cases, and in particular the dust from dry tumbling can be an exposure route. Some have had elevated blood lead levels and mitigated it in reducing exposure to thecase handling and tumbling dust. Wet tumbling helps. One guy discovered he was tracking lead dust from his reloading room in the basement to the second story kids room on his shoes.

I believe it was South Dakota that tested lead levels in game meat and discovered tiny lead fragments, some too small to see, in deer meat after being shot with rifles.

Lead isnt the boogeyman they try to assert, but neither is it a benevolent friend of our bodies. Smart management can deal with the potential issues. To jump up and say any critique of lead is a liberal agenda can look like knee jerk reaction though.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?

mikld
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:46 pm
Location: So. Orygun!

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#8 Post by mikld » Tue May 16, 2017 10:38 am

Just to add comment to piller's post; the treatment is called "Chelation Therapy", it removes heavy metals from the body...
https://www.google.com/search?q=chelati ... e&ie=UTF-8

There are also "natural/herbal" chelation therapies (a welder where I worked had high levels of lead from welding on metals painted with school bus yellow paint and he lowered his levels "naturally" with herbs/vitamins.); https://www.google.com/search?q=herbal+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

Batman1939
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:08 pm
Location: AZ/MT

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#9 Post by Batman1939 » Tue May 16, 2017 11:00 am

Only problem is that condors and eagles don't regularly check in with their veterinarians to have the lead chelation therapy done. Based upon x-ray work, it seems that there is a virtual "mist" of fine lead particles interspersed throughout much of the meat of a game animal shot with lead bullets. Just removing "chunks" of lead from the meat doesn't ensure that one doesn't ingest lead.

User avatar
Ray
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:45 am

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#10 Post by Ray » Tue May 16, 2017 11:02 am

Malamute wrote:

Lead isnt the boogeyman they try to assert, but neither is it a benevolent friend of our bodies. Smart management can deal with the potential issues. To jump up and say any critique of lead is a liberal agenda can look like knee jerk reaction though.



I cannot disagree in the sense that no one wants anything toxic in their body if they can help it.....where i do disagree is that people have drank tap water from lead pipes for over 2000 years....and the first 105 years of tinned food, "air tights" were first totally lead then iron sealed with solder.... during that time span life was cheap and the lower classes were considered quite expendable but it was invisible bugs in the water that killed exponentially more than the leeched lead..... how did they survive long enough to spawn us with all of that lead in their bodies ? .....

User avatar
Ray
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:45 am

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#11 Post by Ray » Tue May 16, 2017 11:05 am

Batman1939 wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 11:00 am
Only problem is that condors and eagles don't regularly check in with their veterinarians to have the lead chelation therapy done. Based upon x-ray work, it seems that there is a virtual "mist" of fine lead particles interspersed throughout much of the meat of a game animal shot with lead bullets. Just removing "chunks" of lead from the meat doesn't ensure that one doesn't ingest lead.

Really ! ! !

Are you actually worried about condors and eagles eating lead tainted meat ?

765x53
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: Bushwhacker Capitol, Missouri

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#12 Post by 765x53 » Tue May 16, 2017 11:05 am

Anyone who scrounges scrap lead knows that lead water pipes have been used since plumbing began.
Pre-catalytic converter, leaded gasoline was the norm.
The Romans cooked in lead pots and conquered the World.
Children who's parents permit them to eat paint chips, have bigger problems than potential lead poisoning.
All of the hype about the danger of lead poisoning is over blown for political purposes.

User avatar
BlaineG
Posting leader...
Posts: 24445
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm
Location: Spanaway, Washington

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#13 Post by BlaineG » Tue May 16, 2017 12:17 pm

:? I thought I read something, sort of recently, that said that the potential Federal Lead Rules have been shut down for lack of support. I suppose states can do what they want.
As Long As You Have A Sharp Stick, Never Give Up. Take One Of Them With You When They Come For You. :evil:

User avatar
Sixgun
Posting leader...
Posts: 10124
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: S.E. Pa. Where Trump is supported and no foreign guns are allowed...except Israeli Model A Uzi's

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#14 Post by Sixgun » Tue May 16, 2017 2:49 pm

I work with lead near everyday...over 40 years....casting........sizing.......loading......shooting......4 vibrators........cleaning multiple guns after a shoot...............BUT.........I have this weird habit of cleaning my hands, (seldom if ever, do I wear gloves) using exhaust fans while casting, not rubbing my eyes, picking my nose or eating after handling lead. In other words, DONT get the lead in your system and don't let the kids eat the peeling paint on the windowsills....feed them food, that is, if you have enough money left over after buying crack.

I get tested yearly as I tell the Doc while doing blood work to add the lead test. Perfect every time.------6
Move Over All You Puppy AR-15's...The Big Dog Is Coming Through!!
OOW BAR 30-06
Image
Terry Is Right

tman
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:43 pm

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#15 Post by tman » Tue May 16, 2017 3:04 pm

With everything that is dumped into the environment along with the preservatives, additives, coloring and growth hormones in the food we CONSUME!, lead from shooting is the very LEAST concern that I have. Contents of Prescription drugs scare me more.

User avatar
gundownunder
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1284
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: Perth. Western Australia

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#16 Post by gundownunder » Tue May 16, 2017 7:02 pm

It's all an anti-gun crusade

Think about it,
if they were seriously concerned about pollutants, wouldn't they ban smoking?
Cigarette smoke contains 1,000s of chemicals, including many known cancer-causing (carcinogenic) compounds and many other toxins. These cigarette ingredients include lead, cadmium, nicotine, tar, and carbon monoxide, as well as formaldehyde, ammonia, hydrogen cyanide, arsenic, and DDT.
So if cigarettes contain DDT, and DDT is banned in the United States, why are cigarettes still legal.
Over 250 Billion cigarettes are sold in the US annually. How many tons of toxic stuff are they putting into people and the environment each year.

Trust me, it isn't your health or your environment they are concerned about.
Bob
***********************************
You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
***********************************

User avatar
BlaineG
Posting leader...
Posts: 24445
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm
Location: Spanaway, Washington

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#17 Post by BlaineG » Tue May 16, 2017 7:22 pm

gundownunder wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 7:02 pm
It's all an anti-gun crusade

Think about it,
if they were seriously concerned about pollutants, wouldn't they ban smoking?
Cigarette smoke contains 1,000s of chemicals, including many known cancer-causing (carcinogenic) compounds and many other toxins. These cigarette ingredients include lead, cadmium, nicotine, tar, and carbon monoxide, as well as formaldehyde, ammonia, hydrogen cyanide, arsenic, and DDT.
So if cigarettes contain DDT, and DDT is banned in the United States, why are cigarettes still legal.
Over 250 Billion cigarettes are sold in the US annually. How many tons of toxic stuff are they putting into people and the environment each year.

Trust me, it isn't your health or your environment they are concerned about.
No kidding... :evil:
As Long As You Have A Sharp Stick, Never Give Up. Take One Of Them With You When They Come For You. :evil:

User avatar
Old Ironsights
Posting leader...
Posts: 14698
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Waiting for the Collapse
Contact:

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#18 Post by Old Ironsights » Tue May 16, 2017 8:13 pm

Note that AllOutdoor posted an opposing position as well.

Which makes more sense.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!

User avatar
Rusty
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8295
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: Central Fla

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#19 Post by Rusty » Tue May 16, 2017 9:23 pm

So now we have people that say they are on OUR side giving ammunition to the OTHER side.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9

It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 21976
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#20 Post by AJMD429 » Tue May 16, 2017 10:26 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 2:49 pm
I work with lead near everyday...over 40 years....casting........sizing.......loading......shooting......4 vibrators........cleaning multiple guns after a shoot..............
............that explains a lot.......... :lol:
Image Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

M. M. Wright
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2703
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:57 pm
Location: Vinita, I.T.

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#21 Post by M. M. Wright » Wed May 17, 2017 8:43 am

Sixgun wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 2:49 pm
I work with lead near everyday...over 40 years....casting........sizing.......loading......shooting......4 vibrators........cleaning multiple guns after a shoot...............BUT.........I have this weird habit of cleaning my hands, (seldom if ever, do I wear gloves) using exhaust fans while casting, not rubbing my eyes, picking my nose or eating after handling lead. In other words, DONT get the lead in your system and don't let the kids eat the peeling paint on the windowsills....feed them food, that is, if you have enough money left over after buying crack.

I get tested yearly as I tell the Doc while doing blood work to add the lead test. Perfect every time.------6
My experience is similar to 6's but for 65 years, (I'm 78). For a few years I had a big smelter and produced hundreds of thousands of bullets for commercial use. I became concerned and had my lead levels tested about 5 years ago---everything normal. Turns out the lead we use is almost inert. It's the lead oxides or other compounds that get in the blood. Like paint pigments that kids eat. I doubt that you could ingest enough lead from eating game meat to ever make any difference in your lead levels. Come to think of it, I've been eating meat from lead bullet killed animals for at least 75 years. When I was young a lot of that meat was ducks and geese and quail and you had to spit out the shot when you found it. Sometimes I just swallowed it.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS

mikld
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:46 pm
Location: So. Orygun!

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#22 Post by mikld » Wed May 17, 2017 10:09 am

Just like mentioned a few times above; whatever the politicians and their followers say is skewed. When CA banned lead in "Condor Areas" I looked for facts, scientific facts to back up their spiel about all those poor buzzards that died from the evil lead bullets. I could find none. Just the do-gooders talk, but no carcasses...
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

User avatar
Griff
Posting leader...
Posts: 17210
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#23 Post by Griff » Wed May 17, 2017 10:34 am

Rusty wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 9:23 pm
So now we have people that say they are on OUR side giving ammunition to the OTHER side.
Beware of your "friends"! Arguments for or against a point from an emotional standpoint are suspect.

Don't eat or drink while you're handling lead, be it casting, sizing, loading or whatever, then washing your hands afterwards, and there's nothing to fear. Except fear itself.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93

There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!

User avatar
FWiedner
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 7680
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#24 Post by FWiedner » Wed May 17, 2017 4:07 pm

Let whichever branch or level of government ban what they want.

I guarantee that I will use every single lead bullet in my inventory anyway.

:wink:
Government service attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 21976
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#25 Post by AJMD429 » Wed May 17, 2017 4:10 pm

Rusty wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 9:23 pm
So now we have people that say they are on OUR side giving ammunition to the OTHER side.
Kinda like the RINOs we see in politics... :|
Image Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 21976
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#26 Post by AJMD429 » Wed May 17, 2017 4:13 pm

mikld wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 10:09 am
When CA banned lead in "Condor Areas" I looked for facts, scientific facts to back up their spiel about all those poor buzzards that died from the evil lead bullets. I could find none. Just the do-gooders talk, but no carcasses...
"Obviously....you hate birds, and probably baby seals too...."

That is the way we are 'argued' with these days... :roll:
Image Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
Old Ironsights
Posting leader...
Posts: 14698
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Waiting for the Collapse
Contact:

Re: Banning Lead Ammunition

#27 Post by Old Ironsights » Thu May 18, 2017 7:05 pm

FWiedner wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 4:07 pm
Let whichever branch or level of government ban what they want.

I guarantee that I will use every single lead bullet in my inventory anyway.

:wink:
Inventory? My "Inventory" is in ingot form... and no one can prove that I intend to anything with it but cast little lead goblins to paint for Roll Playing Games...
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Hairtrigger and 13 guests