45-70

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dogknott
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45-70

#1 Post by dogknott » Wed May 10, 2017 12:42 pm

New here, from IOWA. Since our state is going to allow "Straight wall" cartridges in a rifle for deer this fall, I now have a huge interest in a new levergun.
Am considering the 45-70, and see only Henry makes a gun that is easily capable of mounting a scope. How do the Henry's hold up with this cartridge? I will be reloading for it, hopefully to get all i can out of the round.
Thanks.

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BlaineG
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Re: 45-70

#2 Post by BlaineG » Thu May 11, 2017 10:33 pm

Marlins, too, can easily be fitted with a regular, or scout scope.
There are three levels of 45-70 loads:
(1) Trapdoor Loads
(2) Marlin Loads
(3) Ruger #1 Loads

Winchester 1886s are supposed to handle a bit more than the Marlins.
I would NOT load a Henry heavier than you would a Marlin.

These loads are enumerated in any number of good loading manuals....
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Re: 45-70

#3 Post by piller » Thu May 11, 2017 11:07 pm

For deer, a 405 grain jacketed soft point at somewhere around 1500 to 1700 fps would probably go all the way through at 200 yards or less. Middle of the Marlin power levels are plenty powerful, accurate, and don't beat on your shoulder.
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Re: 45-70

#4 Post by OldWin » Thu May 11, 2017 11:15 pm

piller wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 11:07 pm
For deer, a 405 grain jacketed soft point at somewhere around 1500 to 1700 fps would probably go all the way through at 200 yards or less. Middle of the Marlin power levels are plenty powerful, accurate, and don't beat on your shoulder.
+1
I don't understand the fascination with hot rodding the 45-70. Takes the fun right out of it IMO. Remember, it earned it's reputation with black powder loads on much bigger game than deer.
As piller said, a 405 at 1500 is plenty.
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Re: 45-70

#5 Post by guido4198 » Fri May 12, 2017 6:07 am

Dogknott, with all due respect...
I doubt you will enjoy a 45/70 Henry if it's pushed to ..."all you can get" with hot rod handloads.
For most folks....especially in a rifle not specifically built for HEAVY recoiling rounds, it's more like "all you can stand".
I have a couple of 45/70's. I also have a .375 H&H and a .458 Win Mag. Those last two definitely provide "all I can stand" when loaded to levels I'm comfortable using for game that can kill me.
For my 45/70's...I ENJOY the kind of very mild loads described here.
My recommendation is that since your going to be handloading for your 45/70, start "low and slow"...get those "one-ragged-hole" groups and ENJOY.
IF....if you ever feel undergunned...tweak it up as necessary, but know that as you do, some of the fun will be going away.

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Re: 45-70

#6 Post by Tycer » Fri May 12, 2017 6:46 am

I'll echo everyones sentiments. I used to do it. An LBT 450 grainer at 1675 is miserable to shoot. It's still a rainbow trajectory and you must shoot many to learn that trajectory. Ouch. I now shoot the 330 grain Gould Express at 1500 and it will poke a big hole stem to stern.

Not necessary to hotrod.
200# Minnesota doe with the 450. Right shoulder impact. Both shoulders, neck, part of loin ruined. ~80yds IIRC.
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Last edited by Tycer on Fri May 12, 2017 9:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 45-70

#7 Post by M. M. Wright » Fri May 12, 2017 8:34 am

I shoot the 45/70 on whitetail and use a 300 grain bullet over a case full of ffg Goex. Lots of fire and smoke and it is good for 200 yards. Sometimes I go to the 45/90 (same balistics) with that same 300 grain gas checked bullet. It is an 86 from 1916 and I have a tang sight adjusted for 200 yards and leave the barrel sight set for 100. Just flip up the tang for long shots. You can get similar results from 5744, 30 grains in the 45/70, if you want to avoid black powder. It's a great cartridge but doesn't need to be hot-rodded.

I've owned several Marlin 45/70s but like the 86 better, mostly because they are heavier and don't recoil so bad. Watch the used market and find a Browning. No tang safety or rebounding hammer to deal with.
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Re: 45-70

#8 Post by crs » Fri May 12, 2017 9:20 am

Mr MM Wright and I agree on this matter. My 1886 45-90 sights are set the same way.

Also with Tycer on 450 grain loads - his quote was
"LBT 450 grainers at 1675 is miserable to shoot"
My elephant and cape buff load in my Miroku/Winchester 1886 .45-90 is 450 grain solid at 2150 fps, and recoil management is needed. :shock:
My load for anything in the lower 48 is factory .45-70 Winchester 300 grain Nosler PP at 1850 (or the equivalent handload) which are devastating on thin skinned game. Recoil is negligible on the 300 grain load.

Get a good handling .45-70 , use factory - like ammo, avoid the bruises, and enjoy the venison. :)
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Re: 45-70

#9 Post by 3leggedturtle » Fri May 12, 2017 11:16 am

Welcome to the Enabler's Forumn. The Henry will hold up a lot better than your shoulder will! Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: 45-70

#10 Post by Pete44ru » Fri May 12, 2017 11:35 am

.

Welcome to the forum ! . :mrgreen:

FWIW, I long ago decided that I didn't want to hunt/shoot my .45-70's with ANY slugs over 350gr's in weight. (YMMV, of course)

The best accuracy & terminal performance on deer, that I got with my .various .45-70's ( Winchester 86's, Marlin 1895's, & a H&R Buffalo Classic) was with the Nosler 300gr JSP over IMR4895.

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Re: 45-70

#11 Post by BlaineG » Fri May 12, 2017 12:19 pm

Echoing a couple other responders: I started my 45-70 deer hunting with 300 grain factory loads. 2" high at 100yds is about 11" low at 200. Easy enough to calculate. That's much better than trying to survive a 405 at that sort of FPS... :o
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Re: 45-70

#12 Post by Ysabel Kid » Sat May 13, 2017 11:50 am

3leggedturtle wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 11:16 am
Welcome to the Enabler's Forumn. The Henry will hold up a lot better than your shoulder will! Todd/3leg
+1 on both counts! :D
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Re: 45-70

#13 Post by jmiller » Sat May 13, 2017 1:38 pm

I'm still waiting to recover my first bullet from a deer I've shot with my various 45-70 rifles. So far everything has been a pass through at every angle. My best (most accurate) load is a 405g JSP at around 1450fps. It's really easy on me and devastating in everything it hits. It's sub 1moa at 100yds out of my 1885 High Wall and just 1.3moa at 100yds out of my 1886...all five shot groups. You don't need to kill on both ends and you'll enjoy it a lot more if it isn't trying to kill you on your end.

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Re: 45-70

#14 Post by jkbrea » Sat May 13, 2017 2:00 pm

Reloading to get all you can is great if that's what you're into. Might be fun but for hunting its not that necessary. I hunt elk with a few different calibers but my favorite is the 45-70. I don't reload so I've been using factory leverevolution 325 grain. I've killed 3 elk with them and they've performed great. Recoil is not bad at all.
Here's a link to my first 45-70 elk..... a big cow. I've taken a bull and calf since with that round. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4115&p=49698#p49698
The link also shows my Marlin 45-70. Scoping was easy. I use the scout scope with with quick release. I had the rifle cut down and modified. A year later Marlin came out with their 1895SBL which is identical. Great accurate rifles . Good luck on your choice......and shoulder. :lol:

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Re: 45-70

#15 Post by 3T » Sat May 13, 2017 2:29 pm

If you're going to load your own you'll find it's pretty easy to come up with several accurate loads. I just went through my ammo closet and see
350 grain Hornady RN over H4198,
Beartooth Hard Cast 405s over H4198,
500grn as cast Mt. Baldy and Sagebrush over BP
But one of my favorite loads is 405 Rem jacked over 29 grns of SR4759 this load is very mild and very accurate out of both my Ruger #1 and Winchester 1885.

Others there as well but my notes show these are some of the favorites.
regards


3T

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Re: 45-70

#16 Post by AJMD429 » Sat May 13, 2017 6:12 pm

I almost got my Ruger No. 1 rebarreled from 7 mm Remington to 45-70, but decided I did not want to have to inventory two different loads or risk blowing up my pretty Marlin Cowboy rifle. Then I saw a video on YouTube comparing water jug penetration for 50 BMG from a Barrett versus hard cast 45-70 at a mere 1200-1300 fps, and the 45-70 won hands-down. So now I just accept the 'rainbow' trajectory, learned how to better estimate distance, and have the dual-sight system like Tycer.

(fyi Tycer, auto-correct turns your name into 'Ruger' on my phone... 8) :D )

For things with fangs, or thugs in gangs, I have a Ruger Hawkeye in 375 Alaskan that spits out over 4,000 ft-lbs of power with a trajectory about like a 270 Win, and if I still want the levergun format I have one in 500 S&W that has a Taylor Knock-Out value over 50, but either is WAY overpowered for U.S. hunting.

See what Tycer's 45-70 did to mess up all that venison...with a relatively moderate load...!

Find the most accurate load for your gun, get good at range estimation (or carry a little rangefinder in your pocket :wink: ), and with a good hard-cast bullet, whatever you hunt will drop in its tracks.

(....never could figure out how a critter could drop any other way, actually....in some other critter's tracks...? )
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Re: 45-70

#17 Post by Sixgun » Sun May 14, 2017 1:13 am

A 250 grain bullet from any 44/45 cal. gun traveling 1200 fps at reasonable ranges will kill anything in North America...easily.---6
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Re: 45-70

#18 Post by tman » Sun May 14, 2017 4:21 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 1:13 am
A 250 grain bullet from any 44/45 cal. gun traveling 1200 fps at reasonable ranges will kill anything in North America...easily.---6
Exactly. Hunters get caught up in this "USE ENOUGH GUN " nonsense and actually believe the Advertising stuff.

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Re: 45-70

#19 Post by dogknott » Tue May 16, 2017 3:22 pm

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna continue to bug you all on this subject... This season i'll be using .357mag, but hope to be into something larger next year..

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Re: 45-70

#20 Post by 6pt-sika » Tue May 16, 2017 8:41 pm

Let me see in the 45-70 I've used the now defunct Nosler 300 grain Patition , the Barnes 300 grain Original bullet , the Lyman Gould 330 grain PB HP , the Ranch Dog 460-350GC and the Ranch Dog 460-425GC and they all pretty much flattened the deer where they stood . I used to have a BPR 462-465GC that shot really well in the old circa 1972 Marlin 1895 I had . A bullet that heavy isn't needed but dang it shot well with a pretty decent charge of H322 . I had a BallistiCast 462-550GC that also shot well . And last but not least the Ranch Dog 460-300GC did pretty well after I got it figured out although it took awhile . I like the 45-70 quite a bit although the only I own anymore is an original trapdoor . I since have become more interested in the 444 Marlin as long as I'm casting for it . I've used bullets from 207 grains all the way up to 415 grains in the 444 for deer and I have plunked a pretty decent number with the 444 . Anything cast in the 444 from 225 grains up to about 280 or so will plain flatten a whitetail if you hit him where you're supposed to .
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Re: 45-70

#21 Post by Old Ironsights » Wed May 17, 2017 9:26 am

My favorite bullet for the .45-70 is the 320gr Gould HP https://www.midwayusa.com/product/37070 ... llow-point

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm


If anything you need to download the 46-70 for Iowa type ranges. That's why I'm a fan of pistol caliber levers for Midwest style Hunting.
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Re: 45-70

#22 Post by jcw » Sat May 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Thats a lot of gun for deer. I could see it if you had the possibility of aggressive bears. What about .44 mag?

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Re: 45-70

#23 Post by wvfarrier » Sun May 21, 2017 10:00 am

I love 45-70 for deer and black bear. Currently rocking a henry but i also have used my winchester and my marlin. For white tail deer i like a 250 grain barnes tsx with 13 grains of unique. (Not that im recommending any load!!! Use at your own risk!!) Makes a very mild load that doesnt wreck them.
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Re: 45-70

#24 Post by wvfarrier » Sun May 21, 2017 10:03 am

Jcw- you are correct. My step som hunts almost exclusively with a winchester 94 in 44 mag. He has taken higs, deer, black bear, and coyotes. None of them have to be tracked very far
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Re: 45-70

#25 Post by Old Ironsights » Sun May 21, 2017 4:41 pm

dogknott wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 3:22 pm
Thanks for the info, I'm gonna continue to bug you all on this subject... This season i'll be using .357mag, but hope to be into something larger next year..
A .357 with a proper 180gr solid is plenty of whompum for midwest deer. Use the Buffalo Bore 180gr Heavy or a handload equivalent. 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast 18.5 inch Marlin 1894 = 1851 fps

I keep showing this pic. Minnesota, 110 yds offhand, DRT, lost a quarter from the damage that 1800+fps solid did to the shoulder.
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Re: 45-70

#26 Post by dogknott » Mon May 22, 2017 9:19 pm

I plan on ordering some bullets soon. Has anyone had luck with 180gr WNFP powder coated? no gas check, at 1800fps

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Re: 45-70

#27 Post by Tycer » Tue May 23, 2017 7:00 am

dogknott wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 9:19 pm
I plan on ordering some bullets soon. Has anyone had luck with 180gr WNFP powder coated? no gas check, at 1800fps
They would be fine. Powder coat is not needed at 1800, any lube will do. I've run 180s with lube well into the mid 2ks.
Slug your barrel and buy bullets that fit ( a couple of thou larger).
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