Puma M92 454 Casull

[Homer]

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a used (95+%) Puma M92 chambered in 454 Casull - paying about 400 bones for it.

How have these held up over the years with moderate use - say 500 to 2,000 rounds of full power loads a year? Anyone know?

Please advise. Thanks.

[Pete44ru]

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They'll hold up much better than your shoulder (they're very light weight), since the receivers were specially hardened (more than a run-of-the-mill Rossi Model 92), and the later versions had the magazine tube threaded into the receiver front wall to preclude the tube moving forward under recoil.

I would advise you to check if the tube's threaded in or not, then (if it's not) decide if you want to go about upgrading/repairing the mag tube install.

Mayhaps, the best Model 92 gunsmith in the US, board member Nat "Kiowa" Jones (Steve), can chime in with any options & opinions he can offer, from his wide experience (or, YOU can shoot him a PM).


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[Homer]

.I would advise you to check if the tube's threaded in or not, then (if it's not) decide if you want to go about upgrading/repairing the mag tube install..

It's threaded. Its modern with a safety and a recoil pad. Steve worked on my M71 and did a great job. I hope he does chime in. Thanks.

BTW, the stock is dark. It looks like stained hardwood. Does anyone know what it might be?

[Pete44ru]

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AFAIK, it's some kind of tropical/Brazillian hardwood, but IDK it's name/genus.


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[piller]

I have one in .480 Ruger. Mine is holding up very well.

[earlmck]

Mine is holding up just great -- Absolutely no problems. But -- couple hundred rounds of full-power loads (300 grain XTP at 2000 fps) was enough for this kid for my lifetime; my baby now gets light 45 Colt level loads (250 grain cast at about 1400 fps) even if the case says "454 Casull" on it. So obviously I can't tell you what you want to know, but sounds to me like you've found a real decent deal.

[Old Savage]

The one I saw owned by a friend shot loose. He was shooting heavy loads.

[AJMD429]

I'm still young and stupid enough that long-gun recoil doesn't phase me much (...I'd rather shoot my 500 S&W levergun sixty times than six shots from my daughter's Ruger LCP....! )

I have a 20" in 454 Casull, but liked my 16" 357 Rossi so much that when I saw a good buy on a 16" 454, I snapped it up.

When I shoot the 16" Rossi 454 Casull with full factory-loads, I honestly don't notice the recoil (it has the factory recoil pad), and I'm not all that sure I could tell the difference between it and the 20" one.

I've only put a couple hundred rounds through either of the 454 Casull's, but no sign of wear and they seem very solidly put together.

If I were in bear country I'd have a 16" 454 Casull with the Marble's "Bullseye" rear sight on it. FAST to get on target, and one heck of a punch.

[southfork]

Hey, Pillar, How's the recoil on the 480 Ruger version that you have? Is that something you can shoot very much and not feel beat to death?

[Homer]

The 480 Ruger operates at a maximum pressure of 48,000 psi and the 454 Casull operates at 65,000 PSI - there is no comparison between the cartridges or the effect they have on a firearm.

Having said that, I do appreciate piller's comment that his gun is holding up well. It speaks to the general integrity of the firearm. Thanks.

I will likely run 500 rounds of full power loads through the carbine (not all at once), and once I obtain 100 or so pieces of once fired brass, reload it to lower pressures - somewhere between full pressure 454C and Ruger NM Blackhawk 45 Colt load pressures. Enough to match or exceed factory 45/70 Government loads. It should give me long service with those loads.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Hi Homer,
Early on when the 454's came out (about 2000) Rossi did have some issues. Some of those early gun were headspaced incorrectly off the ejectors so there were some that shot loose. The mag tubes slipping forward under recoil and the stocks were splitting at the wrist.

The early version had this twist-lock type mag tube. The end cap turned into a notch in the bottom of the barrel to help retain both the inner and the outer tubes.


The later versions have the outer tube screwing into the reciever and the inner tube screwing into the outer. The headspaces issues were resolved and they did add a nylon pillar for the stock screw. But, some are still splitting at the wrist. What I have found that works is to glass bed the stocks. This hardens the connection and fills any voids.

They come with Recoil pads but it’s not very soft and is installed at the wrong angle. If this were a shotgun used for aerial targets where you are shooting pointed up it would be about right but that pointy sharp toe tends to dig into your shoulder when shooting level. The better option is to change the angle and add a quality sorbothane pad.

[Homer]

Thanks Nate Kiowa Jones. I'm going to think about this a bit more - after further examination of the carbine.

[AJMD429]

I will likely run 500 rounds of full power loads through the carbine (not all at once), and once I obtain 100 or so pieces of once fired brass, reload it to lower pressures - somewhere between full pressure 454C and Ruger NM Blackhawk 45 Colt load pressures. Enough to match or exceed factory 45/70 Government loads. It should give me long service with those loads.

That's PRECISELY my plan as well....I don't particularly need 'bear loads' but I like the option of 'pretty dang hot' ones without feeling like I might be over-pressuring a regular 45 Colt chambered gun. The extra long cartridge functions as intended by not allowing me to put those 'mild-for-a-454' loads into a regular 45 Colt.

I like that Recoil-pad NKJ installs....!!!

[Grizz]

I'm not seeing anything my guide gun won't do. Compare TKO to evaluate.

I think it has a better barrel, thicker and stiffer. All the rossi barrels I've seen so far are pretty thin at the crown.

I would shorten my guide gun to 16" for handiness but it shoots so stinking unbelieveably well that I'm skeerd to mess with it.

If I got an extra one I might try it. The 2 inches would be useful in the thickets and the skiff.

[AJMD429]

The advantages versus Guide Gun:

• Holds more rounds and/or smaller size gun, depending on Barrel length.
  Shorter lever throw I think (action slicker anyhow)
  If you like tube-loading (or unloading), you got it

The Marlin advantages:

• It is a Marlin (well-made, resale value great)
  Easier to put various sights on.

Did Winchester ever produce a 'Guide Gun' equivalent...?

[Grizz]

Win lever: the 1886 in 45/70.. it's like carrying a 3 foot section of rr track around as far as weight goes, compared to the 1892s, but it's all performance.

you neglected the most obvious advantage of the guide gun: it will pitch 600 + grain bullets if desired. therefore my hint to compare TKOs.

I can make my 45/70 perform like a 45 colt, but you cannot make a model 92 perform like a 45/70 when TKO is the desired result.

I love the model 92 and think it is the handiest, most comfortable, best looking, and best designed levergun for what it is.

I know that you can stretch the performance of the 454 to bridge the gap to 45/70, but I do that with my redhawk, and it's even handier than the 92..

don't mean to sound cantankerous, it just comes naturally, and in no way would I pass up a 92 if I could afford one in a caliber I like. unfortunately, 44 mag isn't an original caliber...

need coffee, splitting headache and it's actually raining in Texas today

stay safe, the lunatik fringe is still writhing and spewing venom . . ...

[Old Savage]

AJ, what are you gunning up for in Indiana?

[AJMD429]

AJ, what are you gunning up for in Indiana?

.....as I told my wife when I bought my Ruger Alaskan in 375 Ruger, "I think I saw some Cape Buffalo tracks back behind the pond..."

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......she even pretended to belive me.......!

[Carlsen Highway]

Do Rossi still make the .454 Casull carbine?

[Pete44ru]

Did Winchester ever produce a 'Guide Gun' equivalent...?

Yes, both in "Marlin" cartridges/chamberings - The 1999 .444 Model BB94 Timber Carbine (17" ported bbl) & the Y2K .450 Model 94 Timber ( 18" ported bbl).

Both had PG buttstocks & 2/3 magazines, the .450 issued with an XS receiver peepsight.


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[Naphtali]

. . .
How have these held up over the years with moderate use - say 500 to 2,000 rounds of full power loads a year? Anyone know?

Please advise. Thanks.

Up to 2,000 per year? I understand Paco Kelly put 10,000 through a 454 Model 92 to verify it would hold up. Ten thousand rounds is but five years' of shooting at your upper parameter. Perhaps you might consider dialing back your full-power 454s per year?

Just a thought.

[Old Savage]

Pesky water buffalo.

[.45colt]

Man there are lot's of tough Hombres here. .The Casull must be a handful in a light rifle. fifteen years ago I was shooting all the +P loads I could thru My .45 Colt rifle......then one day it dawned on Me ,just get a 45-70. . Good Shooting Guys.

[piller]

My .480 shoots fi e. No pain even with 425 grain lbt style bullets loaded hot. I took a water buffalo cape buffalo cross with it down in Hondo. It was with 400 grain ups bullets and maximum load of H110. 86Dr and Mike Rintoul of Grizzly Cartridge company were there with me.
SightHunter likes to borrow it at the range.

[southfork]

I was wondering. I picked up a never-fired, new-in-the-box, Rossi Puma in 480 Ruger.