Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Message
Author
User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#51 Post by Camel73 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:33 pm

Hmm, ok thank you Griff.
I've already popped all the primers, again using my bullet seating die (unscrewing the top and flipping the bullet head holder doodad, screwing it back in and putting just the pin part of my case trimmer into the cases to use with my little press).

Maybe I'll just keep them separate for now since I don't have enough 00buck to load them all anyway. I have about 40 at the moment.

Too bad about the lube. I'm gonna go for a walk and see if I can scrounge something up.
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#52 Post by Camel73 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:21 pm

Oh boy, lol... bullet lube eh?
Well, got some beeswax... I see a fat white candle in the corner, and there's ham and hamburger in the fridge. Awesome! Ha

Lord help me.
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#53 Post by Camel73 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:50 pm

Image

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6367
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#54 Post by Grizz » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:15 pm

Oh Man

my mouth's watering like crazy now

time to eat !

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#55 Post by Camel73 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:19 am

One thing I noticed is that everyone gave their lube a name, so here it is.

AAA Alberta Beef-Bee Bullet Lube
1 part AAA Alberta beef lard
1/2 part AAA Alberta beeswax
3/4 part of some kinda cabin candle (hopefully paraffin, and only 3/4 cuz it's cold up here eh!)

I really don't know what the heck I'm doin, but it sure is fun... enjoy!

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#56 Post by w30wcf » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:00 am

For the round ball at modest velocity, just a bit of beeswax is all you need.
Seat the ball flush with the case mouth and then, holding the beeswax at a slight angle, pull it across the case mouth, turning the case about 90 degrees with each application. You don't need very much.

A simple lube to make is 50/50 canning wax/Vaseline. Melt the wax in a double boiler, then add the Vaseline. I never tried it substituting beeswax for the canning wax but that might work also.

Tralboss -
4.5 grs pushes a 90 gr cast bullet to 1000 f.p.s with good accuracy at 50 yards. It is possible that that same charge weight may not do much more with th r.b. since there is less resistance for the powder to build the same pressure.
You might try 3.5 grs with the r.b. to start and increase if necessary.

Have fun!
w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6367
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#57 Post by Grizz » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:32 am

or sno-seal in a pinch

it's also a fine corrosion preventer for tools in unheated spaces

User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14187
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#58 Post by J Miller » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:21 pm

Camel73 wrote:Image

Image

Great idea for home made bullet lube but PLEASE post the recipe for the pot full of yummie looking stew. :mrgreen:


Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#59 Post by Camel73 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:37 pm

Ha, sure...

Bullet lube stew:
Chop up spuds, carrots, broccoli (stems too!), celery (leafs too!) and cover with water. Add some salt, pepper and a little butter. Start boiling.

Now I throw a hunk of lean ground beef into a separate pan and slow fry while I dice onions, garlic, slice and chop mushrooms, keeping some smaller whole ones.

I say lean ground beef because I find I don't have to drain it and that's what gives it more flavor. Flavorless stew sucks.

To me the magic happens when you fry the onions , garlic and mushrooms in a separate pan with a little oil or butter till they start sweating, THEN throw them into the burger.

At this point crank the heat and crisp it up a bit. Then throw it into the pot and boil (not a hard boil) till the hard veges become soft to yer liking.

When you take it from the fridge, smash all that fatty goodness back down into the mix. It might look grosse but you'll thank me later.

I took me a few times to get it down but this one has become my all-time favorite. :D
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14187
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#60 Post by J Miller » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:19 pm

Camel73,

Thanks for the recipe. I saved it, then printed out and handed it to my wife. Hopefully she'll make some soon.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#61 Post by Camel73 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:21 am

Joe, I hope you're skinny like me cuz its hard not to go for more :o Mine's almost done!

w30wcf, .... Just beeswax, got it.
Are you using filler for that 4.5 gr load? I'm kinda wanting to be around the 7-800 fps area if I can.

Ok loading lovers, I've got a bit of an issue..
I don't believe I'll be able to use those .312's... Too fat! I'll probably have to roll em like w30wcf was saying earlier. Thinking still size them down to .312, then roll them. Here's why:

So this is the way it's going:
- If I FL size (with or without the decapping pin/expander, which is .306"), neck id = .303". To me, that seems way small, even for a "regular" size bullet.
- Untouched once fired from my chamber, neck id = .308"ish
- If I chamber a once fired case (just sliding it in with my fingers), it only requires a hint of pressure to bottom it out on the rim. So I'm thinking I won't resize at all since I'm going for sub loads anyhow.

I flared the case with a duct tape centered punch (pretty consistently to .312", and shimmed my bullet seater to reach the ball (again, because the neck is so tight and I can't just push them in).

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UJ8kZmS.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qlJOoE4.jpg[/IMG]

Here's the kicker.. Once I've got the ball in there, unless I crimp them down to .331" od, they won't chamber, doh! If I don't crimp it's at .333".
I'm thinking the neck tension is way too tight and I'm going to have pressure problems.

Tie a string on and see what happens? Ha
I've got a chrony..

Uh-oh, must have reached my picture limit or something. Mods? Maybe a part 2?
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#62 Post by w30wcf » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:34 am

The cases will spring back a couple of thousands after firing so the max inside dia. is likely .310-.311 so you could use the cases as fired.

Some .30-30 brass is thinner than others and will allow larger bullets.

Chamfer the case mouths and open the mouth slightly with the technique you are using. Seat the .312" ball with the seating die, and if you need to crimp to get them to chamber, then do so. Even if you shave a bit of lead that's ok. Chamfering the case mouths should help that.

I have not used a filler with Trailboss since it bulks up more than other faster burning powders. With the 90 gr. bullet I have used, there is more resistance and the 4.5 gr charge works well as this target shows.

Image

The Hornady bullet diameter is .314" so I push them through a Lee .311" diameter sizer.

With your round ball and your desired 800 f.p.s. velocity, you may need to use less than 4.5 grs, but then again maybe not since the less resistance of the lighter ball will keep pressures lower. Perhaps with the r.b. better results would be obtained using a small folded square of toilet paper pushed down on top of the powder. That might likely be best if using less than 4.5 grs with the r.b.

Something that you would have to experiment with.

I did use a folded square of toilet paper with the 2.5 and 3.5 gr. charges of Bullseye when I was experimenting with r.b.'s in the .30-30 some years ago.

w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14187
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#63 Post by J Miller » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:11 am

w30wcf,

I've never seen a 30-30 with a SWC bullet. I like the idea. I'm gonna save this thread for when I do some reloading again. :mrgreen: :twisted:

Oh, your target looks like you need to move it to the left a bit so the holes will be centered :twisted: .

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#64 Post by Camel73 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:19 pm

Found out a couple more things..

Can't flush the ball with the case mouth, still too fat and won't chamber cuz my crimper only does about the last 1/16th of the neck.
So I seated a couple at about 3/4 of the way in. This seems to agree with my crimper, as it sizes the neck portion down to .331" od ...just what I needed! :D
So how should I lube em now?

The other thing is I found the case lengths varied from 2.021" to 2.033". Big deal or what?

Now to see if I can still post pics.. sweet!

Oh ya, does it matter which way I put the balls in?

Image

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

Catshooter
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:19 pm
Location: South East South Dakota

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#65 Post by Catshooter » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:32 pm

When I seat my Lyman 375449s into their .38-55 brass, you can easily see each and every driving band/lube groove. And there's quite a few of 'em too!

These are fairly warm loads, that bullet weighs 285 grains all up and leaves the muzzle at just about 1,750 fps. My '94 has eaten about 2,000 of these puppys in lever action silhouette matchs so far.

So no such thing as too much neck tension in my book.

That's a nice looking round ball load there. I would try some, see how they shoot and if they lead without lube before I'd worry about it. I've rolled my RBs in Lee liquid lube before, works well.


Cat

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#66 Post by Camel73 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:11 am

I suppose that's all I can do, wipe em around on some lube. Kinda want some lube. Lube is always good. :wink:

I'm officially done my first batch of subsonic 30-30 rb's. A few years in the making ha. Thanks men. I even finished cleaning my bore today, I think. Just gotta put it back together (for the millionth time).

Oh ya, that action job? Sweeeet. I'll see how slick shells run through it tomorrow.I should figure out how to do the video thing for that.

More things I ran into...
- Two of the cases I didn't flare/chamfer enough and when I was seating the ball the neck started sinking itself into the lead. I didn't notice at first till I began crimping them. I thought, what the heck? I never did those ones yet! I quit seating them after that and just flared them some more. If I flared them too much, crimp em a tad.

- After crimping each one I'd throw it in my chamber just to be sure. Well, some didn't fit. Still don't know why cuz all the brass fit before... I checked. Anyhow, I thought now what.. so I found i could get further down the neck by sitting the shell on top of the shell holder. Then rotate it a bit and hit it again to get the little creases out.

It fit! Some I had to do more than others because I never sized them but whatever.

I even managed to get some dacron.. excuse me, quilt batting. I asked for polyester fill.....not a clue... .. in a fabric joint. Must have been her first day or something. I cut it into rectangles, two cases wide by a case long.. it's about a case thick. Then rolled it. Still seemed fluffy but I wanted some tension in there. I'm a bit hard on my stuff and wanted that powder to stay put.

Image

Image

Image

So I made 20 rounds using trail boss:
5 each at 4, 3.5, 3 and 2.5 grains. I'm going to start with the 3.5's and see what my chronograph has to say. I'm really just going for quiet. Well, accurate too but I'll get to that hopefully.

These ones might not shoot worth a darn, but that's ok. It's all part of the learning curve.

**NOTE: Don't use a wad - apparently it'll lead to chamber ringing at the base of the bullet.**
... Just try to keep the powder near the primer somewhere (Edit - May/2017)
:mrgreen:

Tomorrow should be interesting.
Last edited by Camel73 on Mon May 15, 2017 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#67 Post by w30wcf » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:07 am

Looking good! Chances are at your velocity goal, you may not need any lube. But.... you could roll the exposed portion of the ball on the beeswax, then the roll it between your fingers to smooth it out.

Did you use the as fired or sized cases?
Did you load any without the filler?

Due to the low pressure, I think you will find that the case neck diameter won't change.
Once fired you will need to iron out / expand the crimp portion and if your tool is up to the job that would be great. If not, a tapered nail set or center punch shank large enough in diameter would work.

Looking forward to your test results.

w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#68 Post by Camel73 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:25 am

Thanks w30wcf. That's the plan.. to roll the tips on the beeswax.

Only used the as fired cases. Sized would have been way too small.
I didn't load any without filler. I don't want to have to worry about position sensitivity, being that I'm way under the recommended load charge.

That black punch with the duct tape wrapped around the bottom in the center picture is what I've been using to flare the case necks. Seems to work well.

At the moment im singin the front band blues... I've had the action apart and together lots but not the bands. Crazy thing is driving me nuts. :x

Ok, got it!
Tried putting the screw through with the band on the barrel without the mag tube, no problem.
Then tried putting the screw through the band on the mag tube alone and I couldn't get it.. very tight fit (probably to help keep the mag tube from jumping around under heavy recoil).

Like it had eyes now.

Off I go!!
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#69 Post by Camel73 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:07 pm

Results are in!

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#70 Post by Camel73 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:23 pm

Yup, not bad I'd say.

Shots were taken from the prone position, sunny, hint of a breeze, 70ish degrees through my chronograph at a massive tree stump that I hung some paper towel on.

It's not the 30 yard max I was thinking of but 20 seemed far enough just to see what these little rb's were doing.

That's a Lyman peep sight on my baby with a medium gold ring inside that's not even meant for it. Had to soak it in blue locktite for it not to wiggle around in there ha. Kinda looks a little bent actually.. told ya... hard on my stuff.

Image

Image

Started with 3.5 grs, then 3 grs.

I didn't shoot the 2.5 grs because it seemed like my velocities were doing weird things with the 3's. I still am interested though because I wouldn't mind having the velocity down just a bit more... Thought I'd check with you guys first. I don't want to blow myself up!

It could have been my scale though, it's tough to get an accurate reading sometimes. Anyone here know how to recalibrate it? It's a carbon express digital..

Lastly I shot a 4 gr. Just one. Too loud for my liking.. noticeably. Plus, by the looks of things it seemed like the higher the velocity, the more to the right it wanted to go.

So there it is... Mission accomplished!! :D

Thanks guys, for all your help.
If the weather holds I'll try stretching it out and see how I do :mrgreen:
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#71 Post by Camel73 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:07 am

Well, here's where I have to fess up..
While polishing last week I believe i took too much off the "bump", getting the machining marks out to make it perfectly smooth.

So if you're gonna mess around in there, don't file that part! Polish means polish, not file!


I think it allowed the shell in the mag tube to sit a hair too far back and get caught on the loading gate when you push in another round. I could only get two or three shells in...

Image
Malamute wrote:
If you have it apart, polish the front edge of the lever (and up over the bump at the top edge of the part circled in the image), and the rib on the back of the loading gate, especially the angled part that ramps down to the front end. That angle is what cams the rim of an already loaded cartridge forward slightly to allow the next round into the magazine. 94's should load slick as can be with rounds already in the magazine, though many don't. People have just accepted that for some reason, but its relatively easy to fix. No need to deal with them being balky about loading, it doesn't have to be. The "work arounds" of not loading each round all the way is only a stop-gap. With a slick gun the work around is more of a nuisance than anything. I don't think its quicker than a slick gun and takes more attention to do.

With the front of the lever slick, its easier to push the carrier (lifter) back down and close the lever if you want the clear the chamber but leave the magazine loaded, or load a single small game load but leave the magazine loaded with full power loads.

Image

Image
Then I started messing with the loading gate... bending it a little here, a little there... no joy.
I was going to put my file to that too but I thought... naaa, maybe I'll wait.

The plan was to shorten it by giving that little z part in the middle more of a z, then put the right bend on it so it floats over the hole (because being short it wants to come out of there).

Gotta say, probably would have worked but I had been bending it too much already by that point and finally - snapola. Boooo.

So I'll probably get my brother-in-law to weld a tiny bump on the "bump" part so I can file it back to where in need to be.

The loading gate - maybe too thin to weld. I'm thinkin jb weld would do.

Yup, the learning continues.. and sometimes things don't always work out. :oops:
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#72 Post by Camel73 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:06 pm

Ok, so this time I'm going to pay even more attention to my charge weights, case length, and seating depth and try 5 each at 3.5, 3 and 2.5 grs. The weight of the balls seem consistent at 49.5 grs (minus the scale issue).

Since I'm not really trusting my scale I'll cut a couple cases to use as dippers.. see how that goes.

The only reason I didn't shoot the 2.5's last time was the big velocity spread was freaking me out. If I can get the spread down a bit then I'll try. That should put me a bit above 700fps im guessing.

After shooting a few last time I looked down the barrel and saw what looked like big dust particles or something.. was that the beeswax?

But first.. painting!
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#73 Post by w30wcf » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:19 pm

Thank you for the range report. That is pretty decent accuracy for your specialty rounds. Understandably the greater velocity variation happens when the powder / projectile mass combination gets below a certain point.

When loading a lever action, i grasp the rifle with my left hand with my little finger in line with the loading gate. I push the 1st round about 3/4 of the way in then apply pressure with my little finger to keep it in that position. I take the next cartridge and push it in 3/4 of the way and hold it in that position with my finger and so on and so on with each successive cartridge pushing the one before it into the magazine. Works like a charm.....

w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6367
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#74 Post by Grizz » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:51 pm

and the neat thing is, you can unload the magazine tube exactly the same way, in reverse . . .

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#75 Post by Camel73 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:23 pm

Only twice ever in the time I've owned this rifle have I had a fail to feed. Finally figured out what it was..
The shell hung up on the edge of the carrier spring where it's screwed in

Image

If you're not paying attention you'll think you've chambered one, but nope! Don't know if anybody else has experienced this, but there it is.
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#76 Post by Camel73 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:15 pm

The fail to feeds were about 10 years ago... BEFORE I cracked it open so, I didn't do it! Ha
Easy to see with no loading gate :?
Jb weld is cured now so - a shaping I will go.

Oh.. that crazy scale of mine? varied up to 2 grs at times!! It took over two hours to make the dippers messin with that thing. Glad that's over with.
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#77 Post by w30wcf » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:16 am

Wow! 2 grs variation! What scale are you using?
That could explain the extreme variation of your 3.0 load.

A 32 ACP case holds 3.0 / Trailboss.
A 9MM case and a .32 S&W Long case both hold 4.3 / Trailboss and could be trimmed to hold less.

If the JB weld doesn't hold just use another cartridge to push the last one in.

w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#78 Post by Camel73 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:05 pm

Good for the archery stuff still I suppose... Never been cleaned under the plate. I'm too afraid I'll mess it up worse without some kind of guidance (or another scale for that matter). Again, I've been a little hard on it so no wonder. Carbon express - can't find much about taking them apart to clean things up in there.

Found the calibration instructions.. right on the lid!! Ha! Who'da thunk it. But check it out, it's too funny. Some kind of bad chinese interpretation goin on.

Image

Anyhow, some wire handles.. good to go!

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#79 Post by Camel73 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:53 pm

Or, you can substitute chicken and rice instead of hamburger and potatoes :D

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#80 Post by Camel73 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:32 am

Ha, caught a deer peein in the woods...

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#81 Post by w30wcf » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:15 pm

I decided to load 3.0 / TRailboss under a 00 Buck sized to .311. I used a 1" square of 1 ply toilet tissue folded 2X, 1st one way, then the other, then placed down on the powder. I wont have a chance to get to the range until this weekend but decided to fire one round in the driveway.

I used a '94 Carbine (20" 1938) once owned by my dad.
Velocity - 1,126 f.p.s.

I'll fire the other 4 this weekend and we can compare notes. Based on that, I also loaded some with 2.5 / Trailboss. (est. 930 f.p.s.).

w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#82 Post by Camel73 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:27 pm

Oh nice, I'll be looking forward to that. :D

This time I was very strict with my brass, trimming them to 2.022 - 2.023", chamfering in and out and deburring with fine steel wool.

Weighed them (which took a while - crazy scale) out to 136 grs + - .5 of a gr. There were quite a few that didn't make the grade.

I also sorted the sized balls according to uniformity of the sides So hopefully that helps with the big velocity variance.

Just have to make sure the seating depth is consistent now.

We'll see how it goes..
Ill be shooting them tomorrow morning :D
My first child - '94 30-30

Malamute
Member Emeritus
Posts: 3460
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:56 am
Location: Rocky Mts

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#83 Post by Malamute » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:33 pm

w30wcf wrote:...When loading a lever action, i grasp the rifle with my left hand with my little finger in line with the loading gate. I push the 1st round about 3/4 of the way in then apply pressure with my little finger to keep it in that position. I take the next cartridge and push it in 3/4 of the way and hold it in that position with my finger and so on and so on with each successive cartridge pushing the one before it into the magazine. Works like a charm.....

w30wcf
I did variations of that in the past, but when I fooled with older 94s that loaded slick as can be with every round pushed all the way in and no issue starting more in, I started comparing the parts between older 1920s guns and newer guns (even the generally acclaimed pre-64s of late production). That's when I figured out the polishing of the back of the loading gate, especially the front part that cams the rim forward to allow the next round to start. It ends up being quicker for me to just stuff each one all the way in and grab another round, and with less attention and finesse required. When the guns work correctly (I'm assuming the older guns worked correctly in this sense), they are a joy to use.

I sometimes grab a small handful of rounds, holding the bullet ends between the fingers of the left hand and load with the right. Nice having them right there handy to feed more in.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#84 Post by Camel73 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:15 am

I went and talked to a certain welder yesterday, (really knew his stuff..) who turned me on to a body work guy with some fine welding skills and equipment to work on a few things for me.

Took my lever, loading gate and carrier spring to him. He was really good about it so I offered to stay to give him a hand for the day, just for helping me out. Good deal! :mrgreen:

I got him to:
1. Put some material back on the "bump" of the lever (so the cartridge doesn't sit as far behind the loading gate) had to be careful.. too much and it'll smack the firing pin.

Image

2. Weld my loading gate back together (not as springy, but whatever, we talked about that beforehand)

3. Build up the front of the rib on the backside of the loading gate (so the cartridge can't move side to side and again slip back - for topping up the magazine tube)

Image

Image

4. Put a bump (that I angled from the bottom up - can't really tell in the pic..and ya, I bit the screw a little) on the carrier spring loop on the barrel side (no more potential fail to feeds)

Image

I used his little air sanding tool to clean them up a bit, hung out and had a brewski with him, came home and finished the final sanding and polishing.

What a day! Ha

This whole thing has been quite an adventure, to say the least.
My first child - '94 30-30

Catshooter
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:19 pm
Location: South East South Dakota

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#85 Post by Catshooter » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:34 pm

The 94 .30-30 is a heck of a versatile firearm.

For a light load for mine, I cast up some Lyman 311008 from straight wheel weights. No gas check of course, and they weigh in at 120 grains. A large pistol primer and five grains of Red Dot gave me right at 1,225 fps and just over an inch at 50 yards.

Took some to my Lever Action Silhouette match shot two of our pigs with them. Our pigs were cut (mistakenly) out of 5/8ths so their pretty heavy. At the bullet strike, the pig sat there for just a moment and then sloooooooowly fell (100 yards).

Non-existent recoil, quiet, accurate and cheap to load. How can you not love that? They are like an over grown .22 LR and they have replaced the hard to find and costly rimfire for me completely. :)


Cat

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#86 Post by w30wcf » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:42 pm

Malamute,
I agree. I just like using the next cartridge to push the one before it in. Saves on the tip of my finger....

Camel 73,
Hope the fix works aok.

Catshooter,
Yes indeed, the 311008 is a great bullet to use for short range loads. They work great on the 50M steel chickens but I found them to be a bit light on the full size 100M pigs.

To add a bit of history....
It appears that early on, U.M.C. may have offered a factory round ball loading based on this cartridge from the John Witzel collection. I never found a catalog reference but the case cannelure below the ball is an indication that it might have been factory loaded. If so it would be interesting to know what they used for a powder and charge.

Image

This is a combination of information from early Ideal catalogs.....

Image

Interesting history.

Oh....another source for .30 cal round balls ..... Hornady offers a .310" round ball

Image

w30wcf
Last edited by w30wcf on Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

Malamute
Member Emeritus
Posts: 3460
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:56 am
Location: Rocky Mts

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#87 Post by Malamute » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:19 am

JK, your posts are like reading an encyclopedia of gun and cartridge history. I always look to see what you've posted.

Interesting about the round balls may have been factory loaded. Ive used the Hornady .310"s and .315"s. With the M expander die in the Lyman 310 tool it seats nicely with either one. I havent shot a lot of them quantity wise, but have used them for a number of years for small game and grouse with very satisfactory results. Ive used 3 grs Unique with a small tuft of Dacron pillow stuffing over the powder.

The 120 gr load is another good load range. Ive used 6 1/2 grs Unique with various cast 110-120 gr bullets. Very nice for plinking or small game if the noise isn't an issue or nuisance. I had two dogs that were somewhat gunshy, but the 3 gr/round ball loads didn't bother them, so I used them a fair bit. Curent dog doesn't seem the least bit gunshy, if I shoot in the yard, she runs around barking and excited, wondering what the excitement is about and are we going to kill anything or birds drop out of the trees now.

If folks havent seen it, theres some reprints online of some of the old Ideal mold catalog and loading manuals. Lots of other interesting stuff on the site, go snoop around if you have time.

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/HistMol ... atalog.pdf

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloa ... andbook-38

http://castpics.net/dpl/
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#88 Post by Camel73 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:17 am

Catshooter wrote: Non-existent recoil, quiet, accurate and cheap to load. How can you not love that?
Cat
I totally agree.
I'll get to the accurate part hopefully, but it's looking like not too much past 20 yard for now. That's about what I was looking for anyhow.

Why pistol primers? Have you experimented with many others? I've read different primers can matter, interesting. I suppose changing anything could matter really.

w30wcf, I actually have a picture of that whole umc offering somewhere.. I think there is 6 or 7, something like that... Pretty neat.

I noticed .310" for .32 cal... I thought the bullet couldn't be smaller than bore?

Malamute, do you size your .315's?

I've read guys using only small amounts of filler to keep their powder in place. Why? I wouldn't want to chance the powder getting past, but, that's just my luck.. :shock: You guys have seen the amount I use right? Would you call that a large amount? I roll it up with my sleeve on my pant leg and help it in with an 1/8" punch to just under where the ball would be. I don't want to take any chances. The powder hardly moves pulling bullets (the rb's), but not really tight at all.. I cut them a case length high by two cases wide, and they are about a case thick, not really dense.

I'll get to the articles mentioned eventually...

I wouldn't mind trying the other powders for this application since they might be cheaper and also more readily available... I waited a long time for that 9 oz bottle of trail boss, and paid $32 for it at Cabela's.

The work I had done on the internals couldn't have gone better. Really happy. Except that loading gate.. It does the job for now but I should really get on looking for a new one. A few, lol.

Shooting went well yesterday. I'm going to post this and work on the pics :D They'll be up shortly.
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#89 Post by Camel73 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:29 am

Lol, couldn't resist posting a pic of this teen buck when I was in town..

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

Malamute
Member Emeritus
Posts: 3460
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:56 am
Location: Rocky Mts

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#90 Post by Malamute » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:08 pm

I use a small tuft of Dacron pillow stuffing as a positioning material. When its balled up and tamped into the case over the powder with an unsharpened pencil. It takes up maybe half or less of the extra case space. I guess that's the difference between "filler" and positioning material. If the powder somehow did get past the friction snug ball of fluff, I cant see that it would hurt much, other than perhaps not as consistence ignition, which is why I use it. The fluff seems to be consumed when fired.

The .315" balls seem to size themselves when seated in the Lyman M die expanded and flaired neck. I gently crimp just enough to remove the crimp and barely hold the balls in place. Not much turn in over the ball so it doesn't deform it too much.

I tub lube the round balls using Lee liquid alox lube.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#91 Post by Camel73 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:43 pm

This time I wanted to focus on the 200fps velocity variance.
Case prep got special attention - all pretty much exactly the same length and weight - don't have my notes with me right now for #'s) and the neck edges got the fine steel wool treatment.

Had to turn in the lee factory crimp 3/4 of a turn in to achieve the .331 od the chamber wants. I don't know if there is a "regular" setting or not....

Image

Still getting 100ish fps variance but it's an improvement over 260 fps.

ImageI was going to switch back to 20 yards but decided to stay at 30. Easier to tell where I need improvement...

Image

Image

I've never gotten to play .22 style iron sights much never mind with my most favorite. It's like getting to know it again, in a different way. Nice!

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by Camel73 on Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6367
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#92 Post by Grizz » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:01 pm

fine collection of info, I printed it off for future reference. in case, you know, I actually find my 30-30. :lol:

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#93 Post by Camel73 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:21 pm

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#94 Post by w30wcf » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:33 pm

Thank you for the range report. Interesting stuff! Beautiful rifle!

Be careful with the lower velocity loads when shooting against hardwood trees....the ball can come back in your direction! :o

I hope to make it to the range tomorrow for some testing.
Hopefully it doesn't rain.

w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

User avatar
w30wcf
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#95 Post by w30wcf » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:12 pm

Here's what the chronograph said today....

2.5/Trailboss - Average 908 / high 953 / low 879 / variance 83 f.p.s.
3.0/Trailboss - Average 1091 / high 1161 / low 1080 / variance 81 f.p.s.

I also tried Titegroup which burns similar to bullseye.
2.5 / Titegroup - Average 1044 / high 1075 / low 1013 / variance 62 f.p.s.

I used a small square of toilet paper to keep the powder in position.

I was only able to shoot at 50 yards today. Groups were in the 2 - 2 1/2" range.
The load with titegroup grouped the best.

If the weather is good on Tuesday, I'll shoot some at 25 yards and report the results.

w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#96 Post by Camel73 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:49 am

One of these days I hope to get some fast pistol powders to play with. I'm getting an average velocity variance of around 80 fps also, now that I switched to the dippers.

Nice group sizes for 50 yards. I don't think I'd be capable of such accuracy. Your pa's rifle seems to shoot very nice... factory sights?

Tried something different. Those hornady .310's.
I found them out of round... .309 - .314". Not sure if I like that.

I was shooting from the sitting position, 25yds. Felt weird, ha. I usually shoot prone or blast 'em just standing. Practice makes better... :)

Image

Image
My first child - '94 30-30

User avatar
Griff
Posting leader...
Posts: 17305
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#97 Post by Griff » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:46 am

Camel73 wrote:Tried something different. Those hornady .310's.
I found them out of round... .309 - .314". Not sure if I like that.
I suspect that jostling around removed any roundness they might of had when swaged...
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93

There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!

User avatar
Camel73
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:01 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#98 Post by Camel73 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Ya, not sure about that even... I don't think I'll be getting those again anytime soon. I think I'll try ordering over the Internet from the place one of the guys mentioned to me earlier. Bulk and hopefully less $. Gotta check it out.
My first child - '94 30-30

Catshooter
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:19 pm
Location: South East South Dakota

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#99 Post by Catshooter » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:57 pm

Of course by the time those out of rounders leave the muzze, they'll be pretty round! :)


Cat

User avatar
Griff
Posting leader...
Posts: 17305
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!

Re: Who wants to yak bout my 94 30-30 with me?

#100 Post by Griff » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:45 pm

Catshooter wrote:Of course by the time those out of rounders leave the muzze, they'll be pretty round! :)
Cat
And I'd accept that 2.5 grain load accuracy any day for catsneeze loads.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93

There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 2ndovc, Baidu [Spider], Bis, hayabusa, joepb, ollogger, Stevie and 10 guests