First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

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Shasta
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First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Shasta »

In an earlier thread I was considering developing some duplex loads for my 1880 vintage Winchester 1873 rifle. The bore is not perfect and I was having a tough time with fouling using regular Goex black powder. The wise sages here advised first trying either Swiss or Olde Eynsford black powder rather than duplexing. I got the Olde Eynsford in 3F, 2F, and 1.5F and conducted my first experiment today.

The bullet is Accurate #433205C, cast at 210 grains and lubed with a homemade soft lube. Primer used was regular Federal Large Pistol with a Winchester case. I used a Lyman BP measure with a 2 ft. drop tube to charge the cases with 37 gr. by weight of Olde Eynsford FFFg, then added a single milk carton wad and further compressed the powder with a compression die to allow bullet seating.

The test involved firing a full box of 50 rounds off the bench at 100 yards without wiping or blow-tubing the bore in any way, and carefully noting the location of each shot. I did allow the barrel to cool a bit after each 15 shots. Accuracy was not great, but all 50 shots were on the target. When I got back home I used some painted metal washers to analyze the layout of each ten shots, and photographed the results. To my great surprise, shots 21-30, right in the middle of the testing, were easily the tightest group!

Here are shots 1-10:

Image


shots 11-20:

Image

shots 21-30:

Image

shots 31-40:

Image


shots 41-50:

Image

Best of all, I was delighted to find that after 50 shots the bore fouling was still quite soft and not much of it! No lead fouling either! The bore came clean with just four patches:

Image

I plan to conduct similar experiments with the other granulations of Olde Eynsford, then once I have found the cleanest shooting one, I can start modifying the charge for accuracy. Good thing I'm retired. This may take me awhile! :D

SHASTA
Last edited by Shasta on Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by w30wcf »

SHASTA,
Thank you for the range report. Nice to see that you experienced minimal fouling. :D

You might try backing off the powder charge to 32 grs. by weight of FFFG Olde Enysford which produces original 44-40 b.p. ballistics to see if that would produce better groups.. That charge produced 1,317 f.p.s. in a 24" barrel and a 10 shot group at 100 yards of 2.6" from my Marlin.

35 grs. by weight of FFG Olde Enysford produced pretty much the same result.

A few questions if you don't mind:
Groove dia.?
Bullet dia.?
Bullet alloy / hardness?

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Griff »

Nice report Shasta! I haven't found any of the Olde Eynsford powder yet. But then, I still have almost 25 lbs of Goex "Cartridge" to shoot up also... That 10 shot group of 21-30 is pretty impressive... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by RIHMFIRE »

what ever you did for loads 21-30 seems to work real well...
I think that group at 100 yards is excellent...
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Bronco »

BUT I want a picture of the rifle too :mrgreen:

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Shasta »

w30wcf-

I do intend to reduce my powder charge some since the 37 grains was such a tight fit. I arrived at that charge by setting my volumetric black powder measure at 35 grains, then weighing the charge.

The Accurate bullet is the one you recommended to me when I first got this rifle. It is based on your design with a slightly shorter nose. The bore slugs at .431", the bullet is .433" as cast using about a 30:1 alloy (rates a 5+ on my Saeco hardness tester), and I size/lube at .433". I got the odd size bullet sizer from Buffalo Arms Co.

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Shasta »

Bronco wrote:BUT I want a picture of the rifle too :mrgreen:

John

Here you go-

Image


And just for good measure, here is a link to a thread about some earlier fun with this rifle:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=40797

Shasta
Last edited by Shasta on Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by AJMD429 »

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by .45colt »

Terrific post, Thank You !!!
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by w30wcf »

Shasta wrote:w30wcf-

I do intend to reduce my powder charge some since the 37 grains was such a tight fit. I arrived at that charge by setting my volumetric black powder measure at 35 grains, then weighing the charge.

The Accurate bullet is the one you recommended to me when I first got this rifle. It is based on your design with a slightly shorter nose. The bore slugs at .431", the bullet is .433" as cast using about a 30:1 alloy (rates a 5+ on my Saeco hardness tester), and I size/lube at .433". I got the odd size bullet sizer from Buffalo Arms Co.

Shasta
Shasta,
Ahhh.....now I remember. Thank you for the link to the earlier thread.

Bullet alloy and fit sound good. What are the ingredients in your home made lube?
I have found that a soft lube like SPG is best with the larger lube grooved bullet.
I once tried a lube that was tacky and the groups almost doubled.

I'm curious as to which volumetric black powder measure you are using(?).

With my Lyman 55, Belding & Mull and Tradition measures set at “40” , they dispense 36 grs by weight of Olde Enysford and 40 grs by weight of Swiss.

With my Thompson Center & CVA measures set at “40”, Olde Enysford weighs 40 grs and Swiss, 44 grs.

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Shasta »

w30wcf-

The bullet lube is one I got from Paul Matthews' book "How-To's for the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Shooter". It is made with 1/2 lb. beeswax, 4 fluid oz. pure Neatsfoot Oil, and 1 cake (3.5 oz.) of original formula Neutrogena Facial Soap. It stays soft and works well in my RCBS LubriSizer and also works well for making grease cookies for my black powder cartridge rifles.

The initial volumetric measure I used is designed for muzzleloaders. It is a brass tube with a sliding inner part that has a scale denoting the supposed powder charge, and a hinged funnel for dumping into the barrel of a muzzleloader. It looks like this:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersol ... 733539.uts

After weighing a few carefully leveled charges and averaging them, I then switched to my Lyman 55 Black Powder Measure, adjusted to match the volumetric measure's weight. As a side note, the tube measure gave heavier weights for Goex FFFg as compared to the Olde Eynsford FFFg. I definitely prefer powder charges measured by weight rather than volume, but volume must be considered when using bulky black powder.


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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by w30wcf »

Shasta,
Thank you for the information. I do use my Lyman 55 when doing batch of cartridges. Once I have the measure set to dispense the amount, by weight of the charge that I want I just drop the charges from the Lyman, weighing about 1 in 25 or so to make sure that the measure is still dropping the proper weight which it does pretty much 100% of the time. :D

It will be interesting to see how a reduced charge(s) performs.

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Nath »

Are we seeing a group tighten as the bore seasoned with that good lube?

Consider not cleaning! With that lube!
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by w30wcf »

Hi Shasta,
just wonderingif you did try the reduced charge of 3F?

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Great thread Shasta, and a wonderful rifle. I had forgotten about Paul Matthews lube. Made a batch of it a dozen or more years ago and it lasted forever and seemed to work as well for me as SPG, although I never did an exhaustive comparison.
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by M. M. Wright »

Great report Shasta. I've never tried old Eynesford but have used some Swiss which I hear is similar. I usually use Goex. Very interesting that the later groups are so much better. Have you shot this rifle extensively before? I have an 86 which had a very dark bore when I got it but is much better after a few hundred rounds down the barrel. It's and old one from 1916 so it has the slow twist so I use 300 grain bullets in it.
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Shasta »

I have not gotten around to further testing with my old .44-40. Too many other toys taking up my time! :)

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by olskool »

I use big mav lube bullets exclusively in mine, it make ALL the difference in the world. use spg lube a compressed load of swiss ff and life will be good....
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Shasta »

OK, guys, I finally did a little more testing. I had to shoot at 50 meters due to having smaller targets. Bullet is the same Accurate 433205C with Paul Matthews formula homemade BP lube, which I loaded directly over the powder without a wad. Primers were Winchester Large Pistol. I benchrest fired ten shots on the first target starting with a clean bore, then did ten more shots on a second target without cleaning. First pair of targets were shot using 32.0 grains by scale weight Old Eynsford FFFg. Each powder charge was weighed individually and dropped into the case via a three foot brass tube.
Here are the first ten shots:

Image

And the second ten shots:
Image


Next I tried 35.0 grains by weight Old Eynsford FFg, again weighing each charge. First ten shots starting with a clean bore:

Image

Then the second ten shots:

Image

Given that they were shot at only fifty meters, the groups are not remarkable, but the rifle obviously preferred the FFg. I have some Goex Fg that might be worth trying, and perhaps I may try some different primers, and maybe add a wad too. Lots of different components to play with here!

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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by Bill in Oregon »

That's a promising improvement, Shasta!
I have some Old Eynesford I have not tried yet, but will use it for initial trials of the Ballard No. 1 1/2 in .40-70 that I horse-traded for with Marlin Man.
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Re: First Test Of Olde Eynsford BP In My '73 Winchester

Post by piller »

It looks as if you are having fun. Hope you can get the recipe right for the accuracy you want.
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