Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

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Ben_Rumson
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Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Don't know how true it is .... I snagged this tidbit sniffing around the www

Firing at army targets in 1860, .69 Cal. smooth bore muskets loaded with Buck and Ball scored more hits at both 100 and 200 yards than did .58 Cal rifle-muskets.
Rifle muskets hit the target seventy-four percent of the time at 200 yards and 98 percent at 100 yards. The obsolete, inaccurate smooth bores charged with B&B hit the 200 yard targets 98 percent of the time and at 100 yards, the buck and ball rounds hit the target 230 percent of the time (more rounds per shot, you see)
The rifle-musket can spit out one ball every 33 seconds the musket puts out 4 rounds in the same amount of time.
For 100 shooters on the firing line, that works out to 300 rounds per minute for rifle-muskets and 1200 for muskets.
On average, Civil War battles commenced at less than 80 yards. At that range, with one ball for your mark and 3 bucks for Area Defense, Buck and Ball rules.
Another advantage for smooth bores is that the danger zone for them is the whole 200 yards (eyeball to ankle - including skipping off the ground like flat stones across a lake), whereas the rainbow trajectory of the rifle musket has a danger zone near the muzzle and one at the end of its trajectory. In between it threatens only birds. Careful sight setting is required to score rifle-musket hits. With smooth bores, one levels the piece, points it at the foe, and shoots. The .69 Buck and Ball is no tack driver at any range, but at the common ranges at which the war was fought, it was absolutely deadly.



When Col. Mordecai tested musket velocity in 1860 he did it by shooting a small ballistic pendulum at ranges up to and including 500 yards. He got speeds of over 300 f.p.s. at 500 yards and 1400 to 1600 f.p.s. at the muzzle. That means he had to hit his target at up to 500 yards. So much for smoothbore inaccuracy.

A
K
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
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Pete44ru
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Pete44ru »

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The T/C .56 SmoothBore Renegade (model 56SB) that I had a few years ago would easily hold all it's shots in a 3" circle @ 100yds with a PRB.

When my state first instated a muzzloading deer season in the early 70's, only smoothbores were allowed, and any kind of magnifying scope sight was prohibited (red dots hadn't come of age yet, at the time) - and since my state wasn't the only one so inclined, T/C stepped up to the plate with a SB.

The nice thing about SB's is that they can also be loaded with birdshot (my .56SB took 28ga shotcups) - but the bad thing was that the Renegade's 1" octagon bbl didn't swing worth a durn on jump-shooting Ruffed Grouse. :oops:


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Sixgun
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Sixgun »

That's interesting. I have this original second year production 1894 Marlin 44-40 that is factory smoothbore. It shoots shot cartridges like a shotgun as it's choked. I've shot birds out of air with it.

All these years and I never thought to use bullets in it. I'm headed to the gunclub this week and I'm gonna give it a try. My guess is that they will tumble as it would be a bit tricky to patch the bullets.----6

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wecsoger
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by wecsoger »

That's a very interesting posting.

For years I've always had an interest in comparisons of rifled v. smoothbore barrels. People always say, 'you have to have rifling for accuracy. Yet I look at the M1A1/2 Abrams tank and what does it have? A 120 mm smoothbore, which replaced a rifled barrel because the army didn't think it was accurate (and lethal) enough. The Abrams current main gun has better than minute-of-tank accuracy multiple kilometers away.
765x53
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by 765x53 »

I have a T/C Renegade .56 and a Renegade Hunter with a Green Mountain .62 sb barrel.
Using Dutch Schoultz dry patch method http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/ both are as accurate as any rifled ML I own.

Both give best accuracy with maximum charges.

Of course, when centering the sprue, pretend you are setting diamonds.

I haven't tried them beyond 100 yards yet.

My club recently set up a 200 yard gong. I'll give it a try my next trip.
Nath
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Nath »

60+yds.
I was aiming for the shoulders!
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zzr7ky
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by zzr7ky »

Foster slug shooters in my area regularly buy lunch after shooting against my 46" barreled .62 smoothbore. It shoots a .588 patched ball and anchors deer very effectively. Between 75 and 100 yards I get quite selective on shoot/don't shoot.
Pete44ru
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Pete44ru »

Sixgun wrote:
I have this original second year production 1894 Marlin 44-40 that is factory smoothbore.
It shoots shot cartridges like a shotgun as it's choked.
ll these years and I never thought to use bullets in it.
I'm headed to the gunclub this week and I'm gonna give it a try. My guess is that they will tumble as it would be a bit tricky to patch the bullets.----6

It's EZPZ to load a patched round lead ball in the .44-40XL case - which is what I respectfully suggest doing with that Marlin.

With 15gr of FFFg Holy Black it makes a nice plinking load.

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hfcable
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by hfcable »

Sixgun wrote:That's interesting. I have this original second year production 1894 Marlin 44-40 that is factory smoothbore. It shoots shot cartridges like a shotgun as it's choked. I've shot birds out of air with it.

All these years and I never thought to use bullets in it. I'm headed to the gunclub this week and I'm gonna give it a try. My guess is that they will tumble as it would be a bit tricky to patch the bullets.----6

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dang , Six ! that is a rare piece, i suspect it was a trick shooters gun, used to break aerial targets, like glass balls etc ?

i saw a 73 once at auction in texas, smooth bore 44/40 with fancy rose wood stocks, a trick shooters gun......way out of my price range then !

a really neat find you have !
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Griff »

As to the OP... I'd say that at any point in history, you'll find someone saying that the "new-fangled" technology ain't as good as what we already have..." :P :P An' drumming up "facts" in support of it.
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Bruce Scott
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Bruce Scott »

Ben,

Did the article describe those Army targets?

Hanoverian experiments in 1790 using targets representing bodies of infantry or cavalry achieved the results below. The targets were 6 ft high and 50 yards wide for infantry and 8 ft 6 inches high for cavalry.

100 yds - Inf Tgt - 75.0% hits - Cav Tgt - 83.3% hits.
200 yds - Inf Tgt - 37.5% hits - Cav Tgt - 50.0% hits.
300 yds - Inf Tgt - 33.3% Hits - Cav Tgt - 37.5% hits

http://www.scotwars.com/equip_smoothbore_musketry.htm
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Ben_Rumson
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Sorry for the late reply... The target IIRC was 6ft high x 20 ft wide and "meant to represent a unit". The tests were done in the 1850s during the development of the 1st US rifle to employ the use of the 58 cal Minie Ball

Googling "Col. Alfred Mortecai Ordnance " will get results, adding Buck and Ball or .69 cal. will help too..
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
Bruce Scott
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Bruce Scott »

No problem. I scratched around somewhat and found this article which indicates that in the 1860 trials a 10'x10' target was used.
https://www.iusb.edu/ugr-journal/static ... tanage.php

It shows photo illustrations like this, which is the 100 yard rifled musket target on which 48 hits from 50 shots were achieved.

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Ben_Rumson
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Re: Eye Opener Smooth bore accuracy

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Bruce.. I followed your lovely link and also found ...

Cal 58 Rifled Musket firing @100 yds got 48 hits out of 50 shots fired

Cal 69 Smoothbore Musket firing @100 yds with Buck and Ball got 49 hits out of 50 shots fired

Cal 58 Rifled Musket firing @200 yds got 37 out of 50 shots fired

EYE OPENER
Cal 69 Smoothbore Musket firing @ 200 got 115 hits out of 50 shots fired

Maybe I should have called the post Smooth Bore efficiency.
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
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