Bi Metal bullets

[Rusty]

I have 120 rounds of .223 Wolf ammo with the steel cases and bi metal bullets. I'm thinking of shooting it in my Ruger 77. I know some people don't like the steel cases in ARs but are the steel bullets all that big an issue ?

I could just pull the bullets and put some pulls in them. Not great quality but good enough for plinking.

[Blaine]

My education is lacking: The bullets are actually jacketed in steel? I must be missing something because surly that cannot be good for barrels....Someone 'splain what I'm missing

[Rusty]

If you put a magnet on the bullet it sticks. I've never cut one open but I'm thinking it's a steel bullet with a thin cooper wash.

[Old Ironsights]

Steel core, Copper jacket. Copper rides on the lands, steel never touches the barrel. No harm in shooting them except at metal, then they can damage targets and make sparks.

[Blaine]

[7.62 Precision]

Or mild steel jackets, lead core, and copper wash or gilding over the steel jacket. Still OK for your bore. Look at the 7.5x55 GP11 ammo, and check out the bore on any Swiss rifle.

On the other hand, the steel cases can cause problems if you have a very tight match-type chamber or something. Some people fear chambers will be worn faster from steel cases, and some people worry about additional bolt-thrust or gas blow-by due to the steel not adhering to the chamber walls like brass does.

Bill Alexander purposely designed the Grendel chamber to work with steel case ammo, and does not seem to have any concerns about firing lots of it.

If you have a standard chamber, it will work just fine most likely.

It might be a bit dirtier than you are used to, and less consistent.

[new pig hunter]

My pals and I shoot lots and lots of that stuff, not a problem. Wolf is great plinking ammo.

Cheers,

Carl

[cas]

[quote="Copper rides on the lands, steel never touches the barrel. [/quote]


That's not exactly true. When they say bimetal they usually mean a lead core, iron jacket and copper washing over that. Or a "tombac" jacket. I've seen tests where they showed the rifling did cut through the copper into the harder metal.

The steel case has nothing to do with the bimetal bullet.

When ever I'd see people shoot steel cased ammo in bolt actions (com-bloc guns and ammo aside), I always saw lots of extraction trouble.

[AJMD429]

Steel core, Copper jacket. Copper rides on the lands, steel never touches the barrel. No harm in shooting them except at metal, then they can damage targets and make sparks.

Yep. Even my Bobcat Steel gongs, that tolerate 30-06 and 308 and 223 FMJ's without a hiccup, get dents from those steel-core types.

[Pisgah]

Those are lead core, copper-plated mild steel jacket -- and when I say mild, I mean mild as mother's milk, buttery soft. No worries.

[Pisgah]

Steel core, Copper jacket. Copper rides on the lands, steel never touches the barrel. No harm in shooting them except at metal, then they can damage targets and make sparks.

Yep. Even my Bobcat Steel gongs, that tolerate 30-06 and 308 and 223 FMJ's without a hiccup, get dents from those steel-core types.

Steel core bullets would punch right through.

[Pisgah]

https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/p ... 1628401641

[Old Ironsights]

All of my 7.62x54R (Combloc Issue) is listed as "steel core", not "bi-metal"... and acts that way on mild steel targets.

[Bruce Scott]

It would be interesting to open one up to see if has a full steel core. This photo shows a bi-metal jacketed bullet with a lead core.

[Old Ironsights]

It would be interesting to open one up to see if has a full steel core. This photo shows a bi-metal jacketed bullet with a lead core.

I may just have to sacrifice one to the Kinetic & saw...

OK... Done.

I have 2 types. Brass cased, Yellow Tip and Copper Washed Steel Cased, Silver Tip.


(Edit: both projectiles are copper-clad steel jacketed & are magnetic on the exterior)

The Yellow Tip bullet from the Brass case cut through in less than 30 seconds with a hacksaw. The core is non-magnetic and gouges significantly. (Left Picture)
The Silver-Tip bullet from the copper/Steel case took almost 2 minutes to hacksaw through. The core is magnetic and cannot be gouged with a knife. (Right Picture)

[Both bullet cores were gouged with 6 turns of a Leatherman blade. On the Right core you can see a small scuff where I tried...)

The base of the yellow-tip also appears to be poured where the base of the silvertip looks more like the mild steel was swaged around it. Note too that the right ojive looks like the core is separating from the jacket - as steel would but cast or hot-swaged lead would not.


So... I say... if you have a Spam Can of 147gr Copper washed steel cased silver-tip 7.62x54R... it's probably Steel Core like the description says.

Yellow-Tip appears to be Lead Core, Copper-Clad Steel Jacket

[Bruce Scott]

Great! I had some doubts about the steel core description but the proof is in the cutting.

[Rusty]

O.I. Did you cut those and take those pictures yourself?

[Old Ironsights]

O.I. Did you cut those and take those pictures yourself?

Yes. I did it with my own bullet puller, vice & cheap hacksaw.

[Rusty]

Nice Work O.I. Thanks for doing the work.

[7.62 Precision]

Of course, there should not be any .223 or 7.62x39 ammo imported by Wolf that is actually steel core, due to the restrictions on AP pistol bullets, so the bullets mentioned in the OP should be the steel jacket, not steel core.

[Old Ironsights]

Of course, there should not be any .223 or 7.62x39 ammo imported by Wolf that is actually steel core, due to the restrictions on AP pistol bullets, so the bullets mentioned in the OP should be the steel jacket, not steel core.

Point... but then, youcan still get green-tip for both 223 & 308 so... ???

So many people making "pistols" out of rifle actions because of stupid "SBR" tax rules....

[piller]

The indoor ranges in my area will not allow any bullets with steel in them on the range. The one on Jupiter Road in Garland checks your ammo with a magnet. The Herters ammo in 7.62x39 is steel jacketed.

[7.62 Precision]

Point... but then, youcan still get green-tip for both 223 & 308 so... ???

So many people making "pistols" out of rifle actions because of stupid "SBR" tax rules....

M855 5.56 is exempted (doesn't truly meet the specifications), as is the .30-06 AP, most rimfire, etc.

No M855-style .308 that I know of, and as far as I know, there should not be commercially available .308 AP. I could be wrong - let me know if you have seen anything.

[Old Ironsights]

FWIW... after doing a bit of research (that I had stupidly not done before) I discover that:

The Yellow Tip is "Heavy Ball", i.e. 182gr bi-metal/lead core.
The rest of my stock is 147gr "Light Ball", Steel Core.

I'm thinking about doing an experiment to melt out the core of the Heavy Ball & try shooting the empty steel jackets just to see how insanely fast they will go...

[Old Ironsights]

In case anyone is wondering about the performance curve of Steel Core Combloc stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwVJfPdj94Q

Cool info.

[LeverDud]

I feed my Kalashnikovs with steel ammo and enjoy it, but there appears to be very little doubt left that steel jacketed bullets wear a steel bore faster than copper or copper alloys. A pretty darned good test run here:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-v ... ased-ammo/

I know one guy who does not reload, has no desire to reload, yet plays in that three-gun biz that's so popular these days. He buys the cheapest steel ammo he can find and just plans for more wear on extractors etc. and to replace his barrel twice as often. AR barrels are not that expensive so his choice strikes me as valid. I sure hate to see anyone shooting that stuff and not understanding that it does wear bores more/faster, and others have mentioned the extraction issues due to the different snap-back of mild steel after expansion vs. brass (not a problem in the AKs I shoot the stuff in). All this biz about polymer or lacquer coatings is either extremely minor or nonsense in my experience however, and the test above seems to corroborate.

A very experienced range guy last week just would not believe that the "copper bullets" in his Wolf ammo were not actually copper (these were not "copper washed" like old Soviet stuff - they were very nicely copper plated so that they looked just like copper bullets), but were in fact steel jacketed bullets with a lead core and a thin copper plate. I said "Give me one" and took my pocket knife and dragged the blade down the bullet. Nice and shiny and silver. The plating is very thin, not thick like a the plated lead bullets that are popular these days from outfits like Berry's.

Shoot 'em up I say, just know what you're getting/doing.