"Flat" shooting 45 Colt recipe for Marlin Cowboy?

[Topside]

Evening, some loading manuals have a separate section of 45 Colt loads for Ruger Blackhawk SA revolver and Thompson/Center Contender break-action single shot pistols. Would you say the action in the Marlin Cowboy is as strong or stronger than that of these other 2 weapons?

I've made up some easy going cowboy loads (5.5-6.5 grains Unique / 200 gr. LRNFP) to get things started with my new rifle. I have tried them and the rifle is a great pleasure to shoot. Today a friend loaned me a scope to try with it which I've already mounted so now I'm looking to load something that'll shoot flatter. Maybe mentioning flat shooting in the same sentence as 45 Colt ain't a good go together. I'd like to do some 50 and 100 yd. target shooting. I have 4 or 5 manuals, but I'd like to draw on the experience of some of you experts here. If you'd like to share a recipe you think I'd have a little fun with at these ranges or maybe just a good load to start working up from, I'd sure appreciate it. I'll be glad to answer back as to how they shot. Thanks.

T.

[1886]

Evening, some loading manuals have a separate section of 45 Colt loads for Ruger Blackhawk SA revolver and Thompson/Center Contender break-action single shot pistols. Would you say the action in the Marlin Cowboy is as strong or stronger than that of these other 2 weapons?

I've made up some easy going cowboy loads (5.5-6.5 grains Unique / 200 gr. LRNFP) to get things started with my new rifle. I have tried them and the rifle is a great pleasure to shoot. Today a friend loaned me a scope to try with it which I've already mounted so now I'm looking to load something that'll shoot flatter. Maybe mentioning flat shooting in the same sentence as 45 Colt ain't a good go together. I'd like to do some 50 and 100 yd. target shooting. I have 4 or 5 manuals, but I'd like to draw on the experience of some of you experts here. If you'd like to share a recipe you think I'd have a little fun with at these ranges or maybe just a good load to start working up from, I'd sure appreciate it. I'll be glad to answer back as to how they shot. Thanks.

T.

Many feel perfectly comfortable loading the modern Marlin 94 to Ruger Blackhawk pressure levels. 1886.

[Mike Rintoul]

I cannot provide a recipe because my insurance prohibits that, but I will share some ballistics for you to ponder:

260 gr @ 1100 FPS will be 3"-3.5" high at 50 yds to be dead on @ 100 yds.

260 gr @ 1700 FPS will be 1.75" high @ 50 yds to be dead on @ 100 yds.

A 250, 260 or 265 grain bullet will have nearly the same flight path from zero to 100 yds for the same velocities.

Past 125 yds the heavier bullets retain the velocity and therefore the line of flight better than the lighter bullets. If you are shooting 150 for instance, the 300 gr will actually fly flatter at 150 and beyond.

Your rifle will easily take a load that goes 1700 FPS and there will be folks here that can provide loading data to achieve such. Check with 86er, he shot an Addax at 175 yds recently and Ricky has done some extensive testing with 45 Colt loads. If you're interested in factory ammo, please check our website for our available selection or call me and we can make a custom load for you.

[1886]

Check Paco's ponderings in the articles section of the forum. 1886.

[adirondakjack]

My "flattest" recipe is my normal .45 Colt hunting load for either a Ruger Blackhawk or a Marlin. A 250 grain XTP bullet on top of 21.5 grains of H110. Not too shabby with cast would be a generic 250 RNFP WW alloy bullet on top of 10 grains Unique. Neither will hurt the Marlin.

[AJMD429]

The posts about trajectory are right on. Sighting for zero at 100 yards means very little correction will be needed even at the 'peak' around 50 yards. If you are an accurate enough shot to consistently shoot the 2" at 50 yards difference, you'll soon learn to 'hold-under' to hit well there, plus likely 'hold-over' to go out to 125 yards without much sweat.

[outside-the-box mode ON]
I always thought it would be cool to do an 'accellerator' load like the .30-06 ones that use a saboted .223 bullet...

use a .45 sabot and a 125 grain .357 bullet, for instance...(or if times get hard, a piece of pea gravel... )

[/outside-the-box mode OFF]

[Topside]

Dang! You guys are good! That's just the kind of info. I was hoping for. You've probably saved me a couple years trial and error and it still wouldn't be as good as starting with these ideas. Many many thanks for taking the time. I'll post some about what I do and how it goes, but it will take time due to weather and the fact that I do most of my shooting when I travel out of state to where I have a good place to shoot, and that only happens once or twice a month. I'll be in touch. Again, thanks.

T.

[Buck Elliott]

A 300- or 325-gr. bullet on top of 23 grains of H-110 will give you all the "flat" you want, and still DO something when it gets there.

FWIW: "Flat shooting" and .45 Colt are not really synonymous...

In most hands, it is a 200 yard MAXIMUM arrangement.

[J Miller]

The posts about trajectory are right on. Sighting for zero at 100 yards means very little correction will be needed even at the 'peak' around 50 yards. If you are an accurate enough shot to consistently shoot the 2" at 50 yards difference, you'll soon learn to 'hold-under' to hit well there, plus likely 'hold-over' to go out to 125 yards without much sweat.

[outside-the-box mode ON]
I always thought it would be cool to do an 'accellerator' load like the .30-06 ones that use a saboted .223 bullet...

use a .45 sabot and a 125 grain .357 bullet, for instance...(or if times get hard, a piece of pea gravel... )

[/outside-the-box mode OFF]

AJMD,

Check out this thread about sabots:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=4557

I've wanted to try this since it was posted, but haven't gotten around to buying the sabots.

Joe

[rimrock]

almost OT, but maybe somewhat relevant. I've launched 250 gr. Keith bullets out of my Bisley Vaquero with 10 grains of Unique. Pretty hot in my revolver but not uncomfortable so I would think it might be good in the Marlin94. Who knows, your rifle in your hands might present different conclusion.

[Buck Elliott]

Slower-burning powders (like W-296/H-110) seem to work better for 'rifle' loads, and also give top-notch performance in revolvers.

FWIW, I quit UNIQUE a long time ago, and never looked back...

[adirondakjack]

almost OT, but maybe somewhat relevant. I've launched 250 gr. Keith bullets out of my Bisley Vaquero with 10 grains of Unique. Pretty hot in my revolver but not uncomfortable so I would think it might be good in the Marlin94. Who knows, your rifle in your hands might present different conclusion.

It isn't a bad load at all. AAMOF before I got into CAS, that was my standard "rock cracking" plinker load, and I shot oodles of em through a blackhawk. It steps lively out of a rifle as well. In either application , moving to jacketed bullets and slower powder (I used 21.5 of H110) yields more velocity, but jacketed bullets cost more, and out of a revolver, the load gets into the realm of one that most won't want to shoot hundreds of em at a rip.

[WyrTwister]

My "flattest" recipe is my normal .45 Colt hunting load for either a Ruger Blackhawk or a Marlin. A 250 grain XTP bullet on top of 21.5 grains of H110. Not too shabby with cast would be a generic 250 RNFP WW alloy bullet on top of 10 grains Unique. Neither will hurt the Marlin.

I shoot a Lee 250 grain RNFP bullet in my .45 LC Rossi Puma . 8 - 10 grains of Unique .

I try & some times hit the 200 meter steel rams , shooting off of a rest .

God bless
Wyr

[Topside]

Many thanks .............1886, Mike Rintoul, adirondakjack, AJMD429, Buck Elliott, J Miller, rimrock, & WyrTwister for taking the time to put out some considerable good info. that I will enjoy putting to work at the loading bench. Will let you all know some results, but with a cold January rain falling here in VA right now and the fact that I do my shooting in a pretty cold part of the Blue Ridge Mtn.s, it may be a month or two before I get to do much. I'm planning on looking around town today for some H-110 powder and some 265-300 gr. LRNFP's. The powder should be easy to find, but I think I'll wind up figuring out where online to track down the bullets. One last question....if I'm hoping to move these 265-300 gr. bullets at from 1300 to around 1600 FPS, should I only be looking for gas check bullets? I'll be shooting these in my Marlin 1894 (purchased new 2 months ago). Thanks again.

[WyrTwister]

Many thanks .............1886, Mike Rintoul, adirondakjack, AJMD429, Buck Elliott, J Miller, rimrock, & WyrTwister for taking the time to put out some considerable good info. that I will enjoy putting to work at the loading bench. Will let you all know some results, but with a cold January rain falling here in VA right now and the fact that I do my shooting in a pretty cold part of the Blue Ridge Mtn.s, it may be a month or two before I get to do much. I'm planning on looking around town today for some H-110 powder and some 265-300 gr. LRNFP's. The powder should be easy to find, but I think I'll wind up figuring out where online to track down the bullets. One last question....if I'm hoping to move these 265-300 gr. bullets at from 1300 to around 1600 FPS, should I only be looking for gas check bullets? I'll be shooting these in my Marlin 1894 (purchased new 2 months ago). Thanks again.

Do not know , I have not chronied my rifle loads ( home cast plane lead base 240 - 250 grain plain base bullets ) .

And I do not shoot bullets that heavy in .44 Mag . If I want heavy bullets , I switch to my .45-70 .

I am not sure you wish to shoot a 300 grain bullet at 1600 fps in a light rifle . Unless it is a life and death situation ?

God bless
Wyr

[Topside]

Many thanks .............1886, Mike Rintoul, adirondakjack, AJMD429, Buck Elliott, J Miller, rimrock, & WyrTwister for taking the time to put out some considerable good info. that I will enjoy putting to work at the loading bench. Will let you all know some results, but with a cold January rain falling here in VA right now and the fact that I do my shooting in a pretty cold part of the Blue Ridge Mtn.s, it may be a month or two before I get to do much. I'm planning on looking around town today for some H-110 powder and some 265-300 gr. LRNFP's. The powder should be easy to find, but I think I'll wind up figuring out where online to track down the bullets. One last question....if I'm hoping to move these 265-300 gr. bullets at from 1300 to around 1600 FPS, should I only be looking for gas check bullets? I'll be shooting these in my Marlin 1894 (purchased new 2 months ago). Thanks again.

Do not know , I have not chronied my rifle loads ( home cast plane lead base 240 - 250 grain plain base bullets ) .

And I do not shoot bullets that heavy in .44 Mag . If I want heavy bullets , I switch to my .45-70 .

I am not sure you wish to shoot a 300 grain bullet at 1600 fps in a light rifle . Unless it is a life and death situation ?

God bless
Wyr

Maybe I should lean toward a 265 gr. wt. when using a "higher" velocity load, say 1400 FPS. Anyway, still wondering at what velocity using the gas check is wise. As usual, dang it, .......might not be a simple answer. Thanks for your input........... T.

[J Miller]

T,

I have used very few 300gr bullets in my 45 Colts. Most of them have been hard cast bevel based truncated cone type with the two crimp groves.
I've loaded them with the max charge of 2400 as listed in Hodgdons #26, a 30,000 CUP load. I can't remember exactly but I believe the velocity to be somewhere around 1200fps from a 7.??" test barrel. To date I've had no leading from any of the guns I've shot these bullets from. Normally I get terrible leading from bevel based bullets, but pushed at this pressure they don't seem to lead.

However I think if I were to push them harder with H110/296 I'd want to switch to gas checks. Just for the added security of it.

Joe

[adirondakjack]

I've run the 300 (lee mold) gas checked cast bullet (they drop at something like 318) using the same 21.5 grains of H110 used for the 250 XTPs, and would offer the following. That bullet is a deep-driving freight train at around 1500 fps from the 24" Marlin, and it is NASTY to shoot off the bench. The handly little brush popper we all know and love becomes a big boy gun in a hurry with heavy bullets driven fast.

[J Miller]

I've run the 300 (lee mold) gas checked cast bullet (they drop at something like 318) using the same 21.5 grains of H110 used for the 250 XTPs, and would offer the following. That bullet is a deep-driving freight train at around 1500 fps from the 24" Marlin, and it is NASTY to shoot off the bench. The handly little brush popper we all know and love becomes a big boy gun in a hurry with heavy bullets driven fast.

I just bought one of those molds. If only I were set up to cast.
If that load is nasty from the bench with a 24" Marlin it would be brutal from my 16" Win 94 Trapper. Why not, pain makes you more of man .... or so I've been told.

Joe

[Lefty Dude]

I've run the 300 (lee mold) gas checked cast bullet (they drop at something like 318) using the same 21.5 grains of H110 used for the 250 XTPs, and would offer the following. That bullet is a deep-driving freight train at around 1500 fps from the 24" Marlin, and it is NASTY to shoot off the bench. The handly little brush popper we all know and love becomes a big boy gun in a hurry with heavy bullets driven fast.

I just bought one of those molds. If only I were set up to cast.
If that load is nasty from the bench with a 24" Marlin it would be brutal from my 16" Win 94 Trapper. Why not, pain makes you more of man .... or so I've been told.

Joe

Ya gotta get back to Arizona, Joe.

A shootin Pard of mine & I are casting 44 & 45's this afternoon. It's the time here for such things as the outside is Sunny and about 60-65 degrees. Perfect day for Shootin or making Boolets.

[J Miller]

I've run the 300 (lee mold) gas checked cast bullet (they drop at something like 318) using the same 21.5 grains of H110 used for the 250 XTPs, and would offer the following. That bullet is a deep-driving freight train at around 1500 fps from the 24" Marlin, and it is NASTY to shoot off the bench. The handly little brush popper we all know and love becomes a big boy gun in a hurry with heavy bullets driven fast.

I just bought one of those molds. If only I were set up to cast.
If that load is nasty from the bench with a 24" Marlin it would be brutal from my 16" Win 94 Trapper. Why not, pain makes you more of man .... or so I've been told.

Joe

Ya gotta get back to Arizona, Joe.

A shootin Pard of mine & I are casting 44 & 45's this afternoon. It's the time here for such things as the outside is Sunny and about 60-65 degrees. Perfect day for Shootin or making Boolets.

Hold that thought ..... I'll dig out my stuff and be right over

Joe

[adirondakjack]

Lefty, yer a very bad man!

I got the woodstove in the shack fired up hot, and enough wood brought in so I haven't gotta fetch any during the ice storm predicted later tonight. Might get some metal prep work done on the rolling block project, but casting is not in the immediate forecast.

[AJMD429]

AJMD, Check out this thread about sabots: http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=4557 I've wanted to try this since it was posted, but haven't gotten around to buying the sabots. Joe

Thanks. I wonder if 'sabots' might not become very important in the decades ahead as a means to enable use of less-than-perfect projectiles.

[J Miller]

AJMD, Check out this thread about sabots: http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=4557 I've wanted to try this since it was posted, but haven't gotten around to buying the sabots. Joe

Thanks. I wonder if 'sabots' might not become very important in the decades ahead as a means to enable use of less-than-perfect projectiles.

I suppose that's possible. There is one plus to using the sabots, you don't have to size and lube cast bullets. Just fit them into the sabots and shoot 'em.
My thoughts about the saboted bullets in the .45 Colt were just what kind of long range 200 ± yards you could get from the heavier ones? Sure could flatten out the trajectory.

Joe