Jesse James' Hidden Treasure

[Hobie]

I came home from work to find my wife gone with a widow friend to a Longaberger Bingo night and Jesse James' Hidden Treasure on TV. So, I thought I'd stir the pot a bit tonight. As is usual with the monster hunter and such shows I thought it was a lot of tease and little substance.

I don't really know much about the whole subject except I know who Jesse James is supposed to be, namely an outlaw who rode with his brother Frank James from a period during the civil war until his death in 1882. I found a blogger with some comments.

I know that we have several people here who just love such rumors and dispelling or collaborating them AS APPROPRIATE and have the knowledge to back up those opinions. I thought we could use this post as a repository for all our Jesse James conversation and photos. Should make for a lively conversation.

- The Ellison Collection has a number of James photos including many of which were used in the TV show.

Somewhere in all this are firearms as are these supposedly:

[KirkD]

I see a good old Schofield in there. I've read about him. Don't know if what I read is true or false, but the Time Life publishers did a series and one of the books is 'The Gunfighters', which I have here in my bookcase. There is a good sized section on Jesse James and his gang. I think a lot of fellows here would really enjoy that book. It has lots of old photos too of these gunfighters. It is out of publication, but I'm sure you can find one somewhere.

[SmokeEater2]

Jesse and crew supposedly came through this area quite a bit (it was called Rapp's Barren in those days) and I've heard tales of loot hidden by the gang somewhere in Bennet's Bayou ever since I was a kid. A lot of people have spent a lot of time looking for it as well as a cave that supposedly has a large stash of stolen yankee gold/silver that 2 brothers hid while the war was still going on.
I can just imagine how much is rumored to be hidden in their home state of Missouri.

[Kansas Ed]

I wish I could have seen the program, but we don't get the History Channel. If only someone put it online...

But growing up in MO, just about every cave in Mo has some legend attached to it as being a James Brother Hideout. So I just pretty much discount any Jesse James Rumors that come from that state. I believe that Frank James has the more interesting story though. Especially his surrender which was pretty ballsy.

Ed

[bogus bill]

I was raised near oshkosh wisconsin. The museum had a colt 1852 navy and holster. On the inside flap of the holster was burnt engraved: To C Younger from Maj Quantrill. The gun was donated by the daughter of the police chief durring the time frame when the james and youngers got shot up at northfield minnisota. The story was it was taken off a vagrant off the train. I belive right after the northfield fiasco it was noticed and put together just who they had ran off for vagrancy. Oshkosh is straight north of milwaukee about 85 miles on lake winnebago and probley was at the end of the track at that time. It also would be east of northfield by a couple hundred miles. I belive the gang must have shipped their horses on the train and then rode them west to northfield. As a boy I seen that gun a number of times. Then about 10 years ago on a trip home I again went to the museum but it wasnt on display. I inquired about it to the currator. He didnt know anything about the gun, he just shrugged and said it must be in storage. I did notice that where the museum used to have maybe 300 guns years ago, now it seemed there was only a handfull. Now the place was more into painted murrals etc. A old secitary heard me question her boss. She said, "I remember that gun"! Then she went to the gift shop, dug around in some storage drawers and pulled out a picture postcard with the gun and a short story that I just gave on it. I must have that card somewhere yet in the house but cant seem to find it. I tried googleing and did find one referance to it on the internet. I have read and watched everything I could about the james and youngers and never have turned up a referance to them being in wisconsin, so I think this is a unknown extra story of history of the gang.

[Don McDowell]

The thing that made me the most curious....
Did those treasure hunter's remimburse the land owner for all that pasture land they destroyed ?I know if I found a mess like they made on my place that backhoe may have been turned into a hurried up scaffold.....
And are they splitting the loot they have found with the landowner?

[Lastmohecken]

It was said that the James had a sister that lived in Cane Hill, Arkansas, that's only about a hour from where I live. My dad has told me several times that the old timers, always said that the James gang, once camped on our farm, where I live now, at a place we have always called dripping springs. This is at the base of a very small bluff, and the spring seems be dried up now, but maybe it wasn't back then. The old roadbed ran about a hundred yards south of there, but it's on a mountain top.

I don't know why they would have chosen that spot, unless it was for security reasons. True or not, it's kind of interesting to ponder, when I have passed through there on occasion, while hunting. Maybe there is nothing special about the place, after all, everyone has to spend all of the nights of his life, somewhere, and their's was probably a different spot every night, almost, unless they were in a known place of refuge.

[BigSky56]

Hobie, I watched that special too I thought it interesting about the marks in the stone and the stash of 1860's + silver and gold coins some where in Kansas also the connection to the knights of the golden circle. danny

[Doc Hudson]

FWIW, i seem to remember mention of a place called Dripping Springs as a robbers' hideout of somesort. I won't promise it was located in Arkansas, or associated with the James Gang.

There is a place on the Mississippi River between Greenville and Vicksburg called James Crossing. According to local legend, Jesse James used to swim his horse across the river at that point to go courting a girl in the area.

All I can say is that horse must have had webbed feet and been one helluva swimmer. The river is a good half mile or more wide at that point.

Person ally, I don't put much credit in legends of Jesse james' Hidden Treasure. Those old boys generally lived high wide and handsome when they were in funds. To ensure their afety, they were very generous in spreading their money around. They couldn't spend the money if it was buried in the ground.

[TedH]

I watched the program too. The thing that got me was how much the Great Great Grandson of "J.M. James" resembled the photo of Jesse James. Kind of makes you wonder........

As far as the hidden stashes of loot, I doubt it exists. There is a lot of talk about their supposed hideouts around here. Every cave tour will claim Jesse used their cave as a hideout at one time or another. The only one where it has been somewhat verified is a cave in Hannibal, MO, where there is a number of names written on the stone walls. One is Jesse James signature, that was supposedly verified to be his by a handwriting analysis/expert.

[firefuzz]

One story I've read in a couple of what I consider to be reputable publications is that Jesse's mother sold "his" gun in "times of need" to persons that would stop and ask to see his personal belongings. Seems she was also quite a buyer of old used Colt's and Schofields and probably sold "his gun" several dozen times. Old Jesse must have been quite a man to pack all that hardware.

Rob

[Windjammer]

I had a friend born in 1902. He became a judge later on in life in a county in Tennessee, just south of Nashville.

He told me he once met Jesse James with some family in a wagon while in Marshall County.

True or not, I dunno, but he sure did believe it was him.

[rangerider7]

Bat Masterson used to do the same thing when he was a sports reporter. He would go to local pawn shops to buy a Colt SAAs. When someone would come in and ask to buy his famous Colt he would sell it to them and put another one in his desk drawer to replace it.

[Hobie]

About "hoards". It was quite common to not trust in banks, at least not entirely, and to have a hoard buried in a mason jar somewhere on the property. Life was also shorter and sometimes unexpectedly ended. As a consequence not all hoards were recovered. MOST were within a hundred yards, maybe within eyesight, of the dwelling place. Might be $5 or $500 face value in old coin. Worth much more in today's dollars (but buys about the same amount of food, guns, etc.).

I thought the facial recognition stuff was interesting but weak. They didn't go into a real computer comparison, they did the side by side thing. Heck I could do that. The algorithms used are supposedly very good. I would think that would give a much better comparison than what they did. IMO, we're back to the Clint Black/Roy Rogers sort of connection. They look alike but it could just as well be coincidence.

I know nothing at the moment about the Knights of the Golden Circle.

[Don McDowell]

It was interesting the facial recognition stuff worked so good, but then there's the problem with no DNA matchups could be found......

I have a cousin by marriage, we share no blood relation, but even the folks in his church thought I must be his long lost brother, because we look very so very much alike.

[Doc Hudson]

One story I've read in a couple of what I consider to be reputable publications is that Jesse's mother sold "his" gun in "times of need" to persons that would stop and ask to see his personal belongings. Seems she was also quite a buyer of old used Colt's and Schofields and probably sold "his gun" several dozen times. Old Jesse must have been quite a man to pack all that hardware.

Rob

Mrs. Zerelda James Samuels sounds as if she was as much of an entrepreneur as Bat Masterson.

According to a story, one of Masterson's colleagues at the New York Hearld entered his office one day and found him at his desk carving notches in the grip of a battered old Peacemaker. When asked what he was doing, Masterson replied:
"This fellow has been deviling to sell him one of the old Colts I used in Dodge City. i picked this one up in a pawn shop and I'm going to sell it to him."

Apparently masterson did such things on a semi-regular basis.

[Doc Hudson]

've just remembered an article I read in the late 1980's about a Colt SAA that "belonged to jessee james."

Acording tot the article, the revolver was acquired by a doctor in
'Tennessee or Kentucky in the mid-1920's from jesse James' son. Supposedly the James was traveling hrough the area and the doctor gave him either medical or mechanical assistance, or both. To pay his bill, "Jessee James, Jr." left an old 7 1/2" Peacemaker with the doctor in pledge of payment. Allegedly the revolver had belonged to Jessse James, Sr..

Since Jesse, Jr. never came back to redeem his pappy's pistol, one must wonder if he was continuing the habits of his grandmother. i.e. Scattering "revolver authentically owned by Jesse James," all over the countryside.

[gcs]

I saw the end of that show when they were tearing up that hill top with the backhoe and quit because it was too small, and winter was coming? What winter? they were in regular shirts, and you mean to tell me they were hot on a contact and couldn't find a bigger hoe?
Seemed kinda lame to me.

[Dave James]

My family is related to the "boys" great grand dad and his brother where their cousins from the James side. Its funny in a way have been doing genealogical search for years and discovery one of my 3rd cousins family is related to the Earp family, Love watching the shows about them, wouldn't surprise me in the least if they didn't bury loot for the South while riding for Quantrille[sp]. But from the the family stated that came to a halt after the war.

J.M.'s grand son?? He is spookie close to the photos and is so close looking to my Dad, that I'm just about ready to believe Jessie faked his death

[KirkD]

I saw the end of that show when they were tearing up that hill top with the backhoe and quit because it was too small, and winter was coming? What winter? they were in regular shirts, and you mean to tell me they were hot on a contact and couldn't find a bigger hoe?
Seemed kinda lame to me.

I didn't see the show, but that sure does sound like a feeble excuse. Even up in central Canada where the ground freezes into concrete under the influence of 30 below temperatures, I'd have fires burning by night thawing the ground and I'd be digging by day, if I thought there was a cache of gold buried there.

[Don McDowell]

Well yeh and the pictures of when they suppossedly had to quit because of winter settling in the grass was still green and the trees have leaves.

[Hobie]

I thought that was odd, too. My thinking is that they often quit for some reason so that they won't be failing on film. It also opens the door to a hyped sequel. Many of their excuses are really weak.

[TedH]

For those of you that missed it, the show will be on the History Channel again on the 25th of this month.

[Don McDowell]

I'm thinking that "vault" the GPR picked up is probably going to be a hunk of limestone momma nature buried there, and not something by the KOG.

Other than some of this nitpicky stuff it was a pretty decent show, and I don't have any doubts they may have faked Jesse's death and the oldguy in Kansas may have very well been him. Didn't need to change his name, no worry about a NCIC being done on the chance of a routine buckboard speeding stop.....

[Rusty]

I've heard from several different people that J.J. was a Member of the "Knights of the Golden Circle"which was a secret society of people who were raising money to help bring the Confederacy back to life some day. IIRC there is a book called "Confederate Gold" that goes into a good bit of detail on it. They are supposed to have the hold hidden as in "National Treasure" with Nicholas Cage.


Here in Fla there is reported to be Spanish Gold hidden all over the place from the post war days when Florida cattle were sold to Cuba. Patrick D. Smith writes about it quite well in his book "A Land Remembered."

[Doc Hudson]

I've heard from several different people that J.J. was a Member of the "Knights of the Golden Circle"which was a secret society of people who were raising money to help bring the Confederacy back to life some day. IIRC there is a book called "Confederate Gold" that goes into a good bit of detail on it. They are supposed to have the hold hidden as in "National Treasure" with Nicholas Cage.


Here in Fla there is reported to be Spanish Gold hidden all over the place from the post war days when Florida cattle were sold to Cuba. Patrick D. Smith writes about it quite well in his book "A Land Remembered."

Probably more than a little pirate gold hidden along the coast as well.

[GonnePhishin]

I too, saw most of the program and while it peaked my curiosity, I wonder just how much of the info can really be verified. FYI, IMO, the history channel uses a lot of "revisionist" history in many of their programs.

[the telegraphist]

Dunno about the James gang throwing Colts around the countryside, thought in later years they favoured the Model 3 Smith & Wessons. Couple of the Youngers also favoured them. Two of their nickled number 3's are in collections.
Cole Younger serial number 28009 in 44 Russian. Jim Younger serial number 16734 in 44 S&W American.

Have not seen the show, it will probably get down to Aus one day.

[RIHMFIRE]

I thought the show was pretty interesting....
till they got close to the end of the show....and then
to end it like that ticked me off a bit....
If I was hounded by the law....I think faking my death would
be a pretty darn good idea....and then moving away....
M R James sure did looked like an old Jesse....I could believe that.
If it were true...John Ford got screwed on that deal...dont ya think!
Killing a legend of the south....he was a marked man for sure...
And as for burying mason jars all over Gods creations for the
"Knights of the Golden Circle"....they could have tried to robbed every train..
every stage...every bank....and I dont think it would have raise enough....
I think the mason jars was just a stash for when they were on the run...
always had some cash to get by...where ever they had to run...

[AmBraCol]

Old Jesse must have been quite a man to pack all that hardware.

Rob

The boys from the confederacy were known to carry multiple sixguns into battle. The so called "New York Reload" originated with the southern cavalry boys during the late unpleasantness. It was far easier to pull another pistol than it was to try to reload a cap and ball revolver on horseback. There are reports of them carrying six or eight pistols at a time. Not too hard of a feat when the horse is carrying the load. Still, it'd be interesting to know what all Mrs. James sold as having belonged to ol' Jesse. Did she sell any of the ones he carried during the war? Did she run out of authentic ones and keep selling replacements? Or did she just sell whatever came to hand from the gitgo?

[Doc Hudson]

Actually Paul, packing a multitude of pistols pre-dates the War Between the States and the Border Wars by many, many decades.

According to some accounts, the pirate Blackbeard carried as many as a dozen pistols when going into action, and routinely carried four or more. Of course packing multiple pistols only makes good sense when packing a single shot pistol.

IIRC, Mosby's Partisan Rangers routinely carried two revolvers on their belts and not less than two more in saddle holsters. Mosby considered sabers to be outdated and carbines to be useless for light cavalry. he thought the Colt Revolving Pistol to be the only weapon suitable for mounted warfare. Considering his brilliant successes against overwhelming odds, I can't say the old boy was wrong.

[AmBraCol]

Right, Doc. I was stuck on resolvers - forgot entirely the singleshot frontstuffers. Still, the boys worked it out to a kind of art. The boys from Missouri learned their trade during the dark days of the failed secession. As far as multiple resolvers go, the Texas Rangers pretty much pioneered the use of multiples carried by one man, did they not? IIRC the Walkers were issued in pairs.

[Doc Hudson]

Right, Doc. I was stuck on resolvers - forgot entirely the singleshot frontstuffers. Still, the boys worked it out to a kind of art. The boys from Missouri learned their trade during the dark days of the failed secession. As far as multiple resolvers go, the Texas Rangers pretty much pioneered the use of multiples carried by one man, did they not? IIRC the Walkers were issued in pairs.

You are indeed correct about the Walker-Colts!

They were issued in pairs along with pommel holsters to carry them over the saddle bows of dragoons and Texas Rangers' saddles.

It would take a heckuva a man to walk around with a brace of Walkers dangling from his belt.

[mescalero1]

My grandmother had a picture of my great granddad with multiple revovers on.

[AmBraCol]

My grandmother had a picture of my great granddad with multiple revovers on.

Shucks, somewhere I have a picture of me with at least three sixguns on. A 44 spl, a 38 spl and a 22. That pretty much covered the bases for the trip I was on. It'd be cool to see that pic, mescalero1.

[KCSO]

Just a couple points from the Sheriff's point of view...
#1 Not all the bank robbers are outside the cage with a gun. The old he got away with $$$$$ covers a LOT of sins. Most of the captured crooks on the QT will tell you they just didn't get that much.

#2 Much liike Dorothy Parker the money isn't real and mellts like snow, I have yet to catch any crook that has any money to hide. It gets spent as quick as it comes in. The typical crook, by the time he pays off his debts and bribes and such doen't have much to bury and a jar with $100 in it would be big money.

[KirkD]

... somewhere I have a picture of me with at least three sixguns on. A 44 spl, a 38 spl and a 22. That pretty much covered the bases for the trip I was on.

Well if you ever come up north into the bush with me, I sure hope you don't fall out of the canoe with all that hardware strapped around your waist! I'll need a winch to haul you back up to the surface.

[AmBraCol]

... somewhere I have a picture of me with at least three sixguns on. A 44 spl, a 38 spl and a 22. That pretty much covered the bases for the trip I was on.

Well if you ever come up north into the bush with me, I sure hope you don't fall out of the canoe with all that hardware strapped around your waist! I'll need a winch to haul you back up to the surface.

The last I checked, there's no danger of that. Doesn't the Canadian government frown on foreigners toting handguns? Anyway, it was just a day trip all over a friend's family's mountain. Although the picture I refer to is of me on the end of a catwalk, fishing for rainbows in a pond. The end of the catwalk is over about 12-15 feet of water. But with that much ballast and that close to shore all I'd have to do is face shore and walk that direction. Although with that sharp of a drop it'd be more like a climb.

[AmBraCol]

Here you go. I was wrong on the pistols. 44 spl Taurus model 431. 22 WRM Old Model Single Six by Ruger. Some funky Italian 22 LR I was checking out for my friend.