Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
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Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
I suspect this is the best website for answering this. I know it is very subjective, so I'll give a number and ask if it seems like an ok shooter, or an above average gun.
Said 26" octagon gun, good bore and a turn of the century gun. 3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds with 1970's factory ammo. I am thinking a 1" at 100 was my goal, but suspect the above gun may be the best most people can get using the WS stepped rear sight, maybe better if a tang peep is added?
I am hoping it shoots cast well, but the above Jacketed factory loads were the last shooting this gun has seen, and the shooter feels it was the best the gun may do as he was younger and shot a lot back then.
Found another I may pick up in a few months if I can scrape funds after buying the above gun, as the other is a consignment, and owner says ( second hand info) it shoots cast hitting a 10" gong at 200 meters every shot. It may be worth asking to directly ask seller's phone # and ask directly as that sounds too good to be true.
Thanks for any thoughts
Allen
Said 26" octagon gun, good bore and a turn of the century gun. 3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds with 1970's factory ammo. I am thinking a 1" at 100 was my goal, but suspect the above gun may be the best most people can get using the WS stepped rear sight, maybe better if a tang peep is added?
I am hoping it shoots cast well, but the above Jacketed factory loads were the last shooting this gun has seen, and the shooter feels it was the best the gun may do as he was younger and shot a lot back then.
Found another I may pick up in a few months if I can scrape funds after buying the above gun, as the other is a consignment, and owner says ( second hand info) it shoots cast hitting a 10" gong at 200 meters every shot. It may be worth asking to directly ask seller's phone # and ask directly as that sounds too good to be true.
Thanks for any thoughts
Allen
Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
[3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds with 1970's factory ammo.]
Buy the rifle. Quickly.
Shooting a levergun is VERY subjective, depending upon how it's held/shot.
That's acceptable shooting from an open-sighted rifle, IMHO.
[I am thinking a 1" at 100 was my goal]
No disrespect - But are you trying out for benchrest champion of somewhere ?
1" @ 100 yds is certainly attainable from a rifle, but not with all shooters, most 100 year old rifles, and certainly not from an older Winchester 94.
They are not target rifles - they are game guns.
Don't expect a Chrysler to take a high-speed corner as fast as a Porche. It's not fair to the Chrysler.
.
Buy the rifle. Quickly.
Shooting a levergun is VERY subjective, depending upon how it's held/shot.
That's acceptable shooting from an open-sighted rifle, IMHO.
[I am thinking a 1" at 100 was my goal]
No disrespect - But are you trying out for benchrest champion of somewhere ?
1" @ 100 yds is certainly attainable from a rifle, but not with all shooters, most 100 year old rifles, and certainly not from an older Winchester 94.
They are not target rifles - they are game guns.
Don't expect a Chrysler to take a high-speed corner as fast as a Porche. It's not fair to the Chrysler.
.
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Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
I have owned many Winchester Mdl 94s. The average 100 yard group size from each of my 94s is 2" from the bench.
I have discussed this with many shooters and they don't believe me. In their minds eye lever guns are inaccurate. So when they actually do shoot them they sabotage themselves and get lousy groups.
1970 vintage Win ammo is most likely just as good as the day it was manufactured. There was nothing wrong with it then, probably nothing wrong with it now.
Have you shot that rifle yourself? If not then you really don't know how it will group.
Like Pete said every body shoots different.
Buy it and learn to use the sights. You'll be surprised at what you might find.
Joe
I have discussed this with many shooters and they don't believe me. In their minds eye lever guns are inaccurate. So when they actually do shoot them they sabotage themselves and get lousy groups.
1970 vintage Win ammo is most likely just as good as the day it was manufactured. There was nothing wrong with it then, probably nothing wrong with it now.
Have you shot that rifle yourself? If not then you really don't know how it will group.
Like Pete said every body shoots different.
Buy it and learn to use the sights. You'll be surprised at what you might find.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Good afternoon
If the barrel has rifleing at it is fed boolits that fill the bore it should shoot far better .
I have 2 winny src 44-40 (1893 & 1907) here in Peru. They both will not fire factory worth a hoot at 50 yards.. paper plat !
But with my FAT cast loads (.442+ ) they shoot 3" at 70 yds me sitting on my backside. My Winny 94 38-55 in Illinois (1910) shot factory terrible. But my fat .382 cast will do 4 " at 100 of the bench. And that is with a wallowed ot muzzle (no rifling at muzzle end) .
So I would buy all them I could knowing a little work will get them up and running.
Mike in Peru God Bless ya´ll
If the barrel has rifleing at it is fed boolits that fill the bore it should shoot far better .
I have 2 winny src 44-40 (1893 & 1907) here in Peru. They both will not fire factory worth a hoot at 50 yards.. paper plat !
But with my FAT cast loads (.442+ ) they shoot 3" at 70 yds me sitting on my backside. My Winny 94 38-55 in Illinois (1910) shot factory terrible. But my fat .382 cast will do 4 " at 100 of the bench. And that is with a wallowed ot muzzle (no rifling at muzzle end) .
So I would buy all them I could knowing a little work will get them up and running.
Mike in Peru God Bless ya´ll
A sinner saved by FAITH in the Blood of Jesus Christ &teaching God´s Word in Peru. John 3:36
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Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Thank you all very much.
I do hope to shoot cast through it, so as long as the bore isn't too rough I hope it will work in this gun. I have been looking for one that has been good to someone, just filling a space and ready for a new home but that seems a "lottery" gun so far.
I think I'll give this one a go and learn.
Thanks for your thoughts
Allen
I do hope to shoot cast through it, so as long as the bore isn't too rough I hope it will work in this gun. I have been looking for one that has been good to someone, just filling a space and ready for a new home but that seems a "lottery" gun so far.
I think I'll give this one a go and learn.
Thanks for your thoughts
Allen
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Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Mine shoots cast quite well. This target was 50 yd.
Note, those bullets are not stable. Pretty good group for bullets that are not flying straight!!
Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Looks pretty darned good.
I do see the tipped ragged holes.
Is it possibly for sale....lol
Allen
I do see the tipped ragged holes.
Is it possibly for sale....lol
Allen
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Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
No THANKS, I`m keeping this one. Oh by the way those bullets are too long (heavy) for the slow .32WS twist. I have two 170 gr. molds now and the holes are now round although the groups are still about the same.
Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Well Chuck, that answers my question! I have been wondering if the 16" twist would stabilize a 200 grain bullet. Doesn't look like it.
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Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
In Paco Kelly's leveraction rifles book he talks of a number of complaints some people voice about the 32 Winchester. He goes on to say, look at the muzzle end as most were worn from cleaning. A lot can be saved by recrowning the muzzle. May want to check the crown and last inch or so for undo rear from sawing a cleaning rod back and forth over the years. Just an idea. Good Luck....
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Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Just a thing or two add to what the others have given you.
1. Make certain your bore is clean, clean, clean. A rifle that old can contain lots of gunk ironed into the steel that can cause the accurcy to degrade. This stuff may be readly visable to the naked eye. This will be particularily inmportant when you go to cast bullets.
2. If you load the rounds single shot, you will get a smaller group, than placing several in the magazine and runing them into the chamber from there.
3. How you hold that rifle on the bench will make a difference. Many, leverguns do their best, when you place your weak hand on the forward sandbag, and the rifle in your hand. Grip the fore end firmly, but not a death grip and pull the rifle back into your shoulder. Be uniform in the way you hold the rifle from shot to shot.
4. I would be delighted with 2 " 50 yard groups, and 4" 100 yards groups. You may get better, but consider it a gift if your do.
Good luck with that fine old Winchester!
1. Make certain your bore is clean, clean, clean. A rifle that old can contain lots of gunk ironed into the steel that can cause the accurcy to degrade. This stuff may be readly visable to the naked eye. This will be particularily inmportant when you go to cast bullets.
2. If you load the rounds single shot, you will get a smaller group, than placing several in the magazine and runing them into the chamber from there.
3. How you hold that rifle on the bench will make a difference. Many, leverguns do their best, when you place your weak hand on the forward sandbag, and the rifle in your hand. Grip the fore end firmly, but not a death grip and pull the rifle back into your shoulder. Be uniform in the way you hold the rifle from shot to shot.
4. I would be delighted with 2 " 50 yard groups, and 4" 100 yards groups. You may get better, but consider it a gift if your do.
Good luck with that fine old Winchester!
Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Charles beat me to it.......1. Make certain your bore is clean, clean, clean. A rifle that old can contain lots of gunk ironed into the steel that can cause the accurcy to degrade. This stuff may be readly visable to the naked eye. This will be particularily inmportant when you go to cast bullets.
A person that I hunted with had a really beat to stuff 336 30WCF that the bbl was so crammed with gunk, the factory 170s keyholed @ fifty yds, but it hit minute of deer every year for him.... Accuracy is in the eye of the shooter (he thought that the bullets hitting sideways made it "hit harder")
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Thanks again for the additional suggestions.
I am used to cleaning modern centerfire guns with hoppes or another powder fouling remover, then copper solvent such as sweets, etc which is a pretty agressive ammonia based product.
What cleaning suggestions do you all have for an old bore like this that is hopefully copper fouled, but could be lead fouled?
BTW, the sellers dad got it in 1962 with a busted buttstock that they salvaged so it could be used, and the last time it was used was 1980, when it killed some critters.
Should get it by next weekend....
Thanks
Allen
I am used to cleaning modern centerfire guns with hoppes or another powder fouling remover, then copper solvent such as sweets, etc which is a pretty agressive ammonia based product.
What cleaning suggestions do you all have for an old bore like this that is hopefully copper fouled, but could be lead fouled?
BTW, the sellers dad got it in 1962 with a busted buttstock that they salvaged so it could be used, and the last time it was used was 1980, when it killed some critters.
Should get it by next weekend....
Thanks
Allen
Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
Lead can be eaten out of the bbl with a half/half mix of white vinegar & hydrogen oxide out of the brown bottle ( not the heavy duty stuff) I've never had a problem, but a reliable friend sez to clean with water afterward.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
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Re: Accuracy question- 1894 32 ws
A shooting Pard of mine from Michigan bought a Winchester 94 26" octagon 30-30 made in 1900. The purpose of the purchase was to be used for CAS long Range side match use. 150-300 yards. The best accuracy he got was 10"-12" 100 yards. He Winter here in Arizona, I told him to bring the piece out with him a so we could see what the problem was. I ask if the bore was clean and the answer was "YES, I know how to clean Guns".
When he arrived I got out the cleaning rod, jag & patches. (for a solvent I use a mixture of Kroil & Hoppes 50%@) First patch thru the barrel came out grey/green. His remark was," no rifle patch comes out totally clean". My answer," if you want to shoot lead it's gotta be squeeky clean".
He left the piece that day and I started to soak and clean the piece over the next several days. When we finally got it clean, then we sluged the barrel. It came out .309". I have some unsized bullets I cast years ago, and we sized & gas checked several hundred for him to shoot. we loaded a few and went to the range. 1" or better at 50 yards, 2-3" at 100 yrds. and 4"-8" at 200 yrds. This is with Iron sights, Lyman rear tang.
The following Week he won his first long range match, and since He and his Wife have won many Michigan State matches with this 94.
And to think four years ago I could have bought that Rifle for $500.00, because it would not shoot lead or shoot a tight group.
Some say it does not make a difference to clean the jacket fouling from the bore of a Rifle before you attempt to shoot lead.
I begged to differ, I know the results.
When he arrived I got out the cleaning rod, jag & patches. (for a solvent I use a mixture of Kroil & Hoppes 50%@) First patch thru the barrel came out grey/green. His remark was," no rifle patch comes out totally clean". My answer," if you want to shoot lead it's gotta be squeeky clean".
He left the piece that day and I started to soak and clean the piece over the next several days. When we finally got it clean, then we sluged the barrel. It came out .309". I have some unsized bullets I cast years ago, and we sized & gas checked several hundred for him to shoot. we loaded a few and went to the range. 1" or better at 50 yards, 2-3" at 100 yrds. and 4"-8" at 200 yrds. This is with Iron sights, Lyman rear tang.
The following Week he won his first long range match, and since He and his Wife have won many Michigan State matches with this 94.
And to think four years ago I could have bought that Rifle for $500.00, because it would not shoot lead or shoot a tight group.
Some say it does not make a difference to clean the jacket fouling from the bore of a Rifle before you attempt to shoot lead.
I begged to differ, I know the results.
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Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
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Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30
Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Cowtown Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30